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Author Topic:   Iran, Nukes, and the End of the World
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 16 of 38 (423034)
09-19-2007 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Tal
09-19-2007 12:46 AM


Re: Kansas City Shuffle.
The difference Tal is the the Islamist Nutjobs do not have the capability to bring about the End Times while the Christian Nutjobs do.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Tal, posted 09-19-2007 12:46 AM Tal has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Phat, posted 09-19-2007 12:00 PM jar has replied
 Message 26 by Tal, posted 09-20-2007 2:19 AM jar has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 17 of 38 (423038)
09-19-2007 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by jar
09-19-2007 11:29 AM


Re: Kansas City Shuffle.
Jar writes:
the Islamic Nut jobs do not have the capability to bring about the End Times while the Christian Nut jobs do.
I don't agree. The worst Christian "nut job" is currently in power and I don't think that we in the U.S. will allow anyone worse than him to gain any power. Even so, the U.S. has its nuclear arsenal locked and monitored.
Nobody simply pushes the button because "Jesus" tells them to! The other nut jobs overseas, on the other hand, are much less stable. The weapons have filtered into the hands of unstable nations such as North Korea. Would you seriously argue that our government would be more likely to initiate a nuclear attack than would North Korea?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by jar, posted 09-19-2007 11:29 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by jar, posted 09-19-2007 12:08 PM Phat has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 18 of 38 (423040)
09-19-2007 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Phat
09-19-2007 12:00 PM


incite attack?
Would you seriously argue that our government would be more likely to initiate a nuclear attack than would North Korea?
Yes, particularly a successful attack.
List the nations invaded by North Korea.
Now list the nations invaded by the US.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Phat, posted 09-19-2007 12:00 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by macaroniandcheese, posted 09-19-2007 12:17 PM jar has not replied
 Message 20 by Phat, posted 09-19-2007 12:23 PM jar has replied
 Message 31 by anglagard, posted 09-20-2007 9:51 PM jar has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 19 of 38 (423042)
09-19-2007 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by jar
09-19-2007 12:08 PM


Re: incite attack?
i would, too.
we have this nasty habit of being overly isolationist or overly punchy with the buttons... especially people who think we're being "threatened". why should this be different with unconventional arms?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by jar, posted 09-19-2007 12:08 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Taz, posted 09-20-2007 12:05 AM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 20 of 38 (423044)
09-19-2007 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by jar
09-19-2007 12:08 PM


Re: incite attack?
I agree that we have been aggressive...and it was to protect our economic way of life, among other things. However....
  • We helped stop Hitler and the aggressive powers in WW II. That was necessary and honorable.
  • Had we failed to stop Communism, what would have been the end result?
  • Now, with Islam spreading throughout the world, what would you have us do? Allow it to happen and sit back until we become assimilated into a foreign culture?

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 18 by jar, posted 09-19-2007 12:08 PM jar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 21 by Chiroptera, posted 09-19-2007 12:29 PM Phat has not replied
     Message 22 by jar, posted 09-19-2007 12:34 PM Phat has not replied
     Message 23 by Taz, posted 09-19-2007 11:56 PM Phat has not replied

      
    Chiroptera
    Inactive Member


    Message 21 of 38 (423045)
    09-19-2007 12:29 PM
    Reply to: Message 20 by Phat
    09-19-2007 12:23 PM


    Re: incite attack?
    We helped stop Hitler and the aggressive powers in WW II. That was necessary and honorable.
    But only after US colonies in the Pacific were attacked by Japan.
    I'll point out that the "democratic" nations the US allied with controlled vast undemocratic colonies in the world -- I suspect that the majority of people under British or French rule had no say in how they were ruled).
    But maybe I'll give this one to you anyway.
    -
    Had we failed to stop Communism, what would have been the end result?
    First, the U.S. did not stop Communism. Second, it's debatable whether Communism was really such a grave threat that it needed to be stopped.
    -
    Now, with Islam spreading throughout the world, what would you have us do?
    Huh? What are you talking about?

    You can observe a lot by watching. -- Yogi Berra

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 20 by Phat, posted 09-19-2007 12:23 PM Phat has not replied

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     Message 24 by Taz, posted 09-19-2007 11:59 PM Chiroptera has not replied

      
    jar
    Member (Idle past 393 days)
    Posts: 34026
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004


    Message 22 of 38 (423046)
    09-19-2007 12:34 PM
    Reply to: Message 20 by Phat
    09-19-2007 12:23 PM


    Re: incite attack?
    List the Nations we have invaded. List the places we have conquered and occupied. Build the list.
    Had we failed to stop Communism, what would have been the end result?
    What? Do you seriously think we stopped communism? You do realize that TV and Radio along with their piss poor management brought about the fall of the Soviet Union. I Love Lucy and Leave it to Beaver and Maytag commercials and Soap Operas destroyed the Soviet Union.
    Now, with Islam spreading throughout the world, what would you have us do?
    Nothing. That is a religious issue and up to the individual.

    Aslan is not a Tame Lion

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 20 by Phat, posted 09-19-2007 12:23 PM Phat has not replied

      
    Taz
    Member (Idle past 3291 days)
    Posts: 5069
    From: Zerus
    Joined: 07-18-2006


    Message 23 of 38 (423162)
    09-19-2007 11:56 PM
    Reply to: Message 20 by Phat
    09-19-2007 12:23 PM


    Re: incite attack?
    I know some people that lived in Moscow before, during, and after the fall of communism in Russia. Listen to what jar said. Key word in the fall of communism in Russia was "bread".

    Disclaimer:
    Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
    He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 20 by Phat, posted 09-19-2007 12:23 PM Phat has not replied

      
    Taz
    Member (Idle past 3291 days)
    Posts: 5069
    From: Zerus
    Joined: 07-18-2006


    Message 24 of 38 (423163)
    09-19-2007 11:59 PM
    Reply to: Message 21 by Chiroptera
    09-19-2007 12:29 PM


    Re: incite attack?
    Chiroptera writes:
    Second, it's debatable whether Communism was really such a grave threat that it needed to be stopped.
    While I agree with you that it's debatable whether communism needed to be stopped, I would argue that at least the bastardized versions of communism that sprung up in certain places absolutely needed some intervention from the free world.

    Disclaimer:
    Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
    He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 21 by Chiroptera, posted 09-19-2007 12:29 PM Chiroptera has not replied

      
    Taz
    Member (Idle past 3291 days)
    Posts: 5069
    From: Zerus
    Joined: 07-18-2006


    Message 25 of 38 (423164)
    09-20-2007 12:05 AM
    Reply to: Message 19 by macaroniandcheese
    09-19-2007 12:17 PM


    Re: incite attack?
    bren writes:
    we have this nasty habit of being overly isolationist or overly punchy with the buttons...
    Well, the US tends to be in the extreme of anything. When our people had isolationist feelings, we tried everything we could to stay out of everybody's way. When we decided to become a superpower, we've been in everybody's face ever since. We have military bases virtually throughout the world. Even Antarctica has a US naval base there. I think we had a base in England for 50 after WW2.
    Anyway, I wonder if it's not too much to ask for the US to be just a regular joe in the international community... you know, like Spain and such? Sweden and Canada seem to be doing pretty well without spending a rediculous sum of money on their military every year.

    Disclaimer:
    Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
    He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 19 by macaroniandcheese, posted 09-19-2007 12:17 PM macaroniandcheese has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 29 by macaroniandcheese, posted 09-20-2007 9:11 AM Taz has not replied

      
    Tal
    Member (Idle past 5676 days)
    Posts: 1140
    From: Fort Bragg, NC
    Joined: 12-29-2004


    Message 26 of 38 (423186)
    09-20-2007 2:19 AM
    Reply to: Message 16 by jar
    09-19-2007 11:29 AM


    Re: Kansas City Shuffle.
    The difference Tal is the the Islamist Nutjobs do not have the capability to bring about the End Times while the Christian Nutjobs do.
    I fully agree.
    If the Islamist Nutjobs had the capability, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

    If those WMD that don't exist were easier to identify and handled properly, then this would not have occurred.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 16 by jar, posted 09-19-2007 11:29 AM jar has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 27 by kuresu, posted 09-20-2007 3:01 AM Tal has replied

      
    kuresu
    Member (Idle past 2512 days)
    Posts: 2544
    From: boulder, colorado
    Joined: 03-24-2006


    Message 27 of 38 (423187)
    09-20-2007 3:01 AM
    Reply to: Message 26 by Tal
    09-20-2007 2:19 AM


    Re: Kansas City Shuffle.
    So you agree with jar that christian nutjobs are the greater threat?
    Because I could have sworn that you stated earlier that you thought the islamic nutjobs were the greater threat.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 26 by Tal, posted 09-20-2007 2:19 AM Tal has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 28 by Tal, posted 09-20-2007 6:20 AM kuresu has not replied

      
    Tal
    Member (Idle past 5676 days)
    Posts: 1140
    From: Fort Bragg, NC
    Joined: 12-29-2004


    Message 28 of 38 (423191)
    09-20-2007 6:20 AM
    Reply to: Message 27 by kuresu
    09-20-2007 3:01 AM


    Re: Kansas City Shuffle.
    I agree with what I quoted.
    The difference Tal is the the Islamist Nutjobs do not have the capability to bring about the End Times while the Christian Nutjobs do.
    If Islamic nutjobs had nukes, they would have used them on Israel and the United States by now along with anyone else who doesn't agree with thier theological thinking.

    If those WMD that don't exist were easier to identify and handled properly, then this would not have occurred.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 27 by kuresu, posted 09-20-2007 3:01 AM kuresu has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 30 by jar, posted 09-20-2007 11:24 AM Tal has not replied

      
    macaroniandcheese 
    Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
    Posts: 4258
    Joined: 05-24-2004


    Message 29 of 38 (423210)
    09-20-2007 9:11 AM
    Reply to: Message 25 by Taz
    09-20-2007 12:05 AM


    Re: incite attack?
    the problem is, though, that there's a lot in the way of international "peacekeeping" that couldn't happen without US capabilities. but. i do agree that we could stand to spend less on our military and more on i dunno, education? i think the biggest problem with everything we do is that it's poorly organized and implemented, including our budget. our enlisted men hardly make enough to support families who sacrifice enough already, and our veterans are getting the shit end of the stick. meanwhile, we throw money at problems with no solution and our education system is one of the worst in the developed world.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 25 by Taz, posted 09-20-2007 12:05 AM Taz has not replied

      
    jar
    Member (Idle past 393 days)
    Posts: 34026
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004


    Message 30 of 38 (423220)
    09-20-2007 11:24 AM
    Reply to: Message 28 by Tal
    09-20-2007 6:20 AM


    Re: Kansas City Shuffle.
    If Islamic nutjobs had nukes, they would have used them on Israel and the United States by now along with anyone else who doesn't agree with thier theological thinking.
    But you have offered nothing to really support that assertion.
    However, that is also irrelevant to the topic, which in case you have missed it is "Iran, Nukes, and the End of the World".
    A Nation State is unlikely to use nukes against another Nation State. Iran with nukes is no greater threat than Iran without nukes. One sad thing about the MAD concept is that it really does limit your actions.
    In addition, you have shown no reason to think that any nuclear explosion would lead to the end of the world.

    Aslan is not a Tame Lion

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 28 by Tal, posted 09-20-2007 6:20 AM Tal has not replied

      
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