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Author Topic:   Bush takes one more step toward outright fascism.
nwr
Member
Posts: 6484
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 76 of 158 (335531)
07-26-2006 5:05 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Omnivorous
07-26-2006 4:14 PM


Re: The randman shell game is back
This morning I listened to an NPR segment that included a high level DoJ official from the Reagan administration. He was livid about Bush's signing statements, and explicitly stated that the practice abandoned core conservative values, most specifically (aside from plain matters of constitutionality), the recognition that however right one feels one's partisan cause, one cannot expect one's own angels to always occupy the office one now holds.
Sure. Some republican senators hint at similar opinions, but when push comes to shove they manage to find excuses to vote for the Bush position on legislation.
I heard similar comments before the 2004 election. Yet many of those critics managed to find was of voting for Bush anyway.
I still say they need to grow some spine.

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 Message 75 by Omnivorous, posted 07-26-2006 4:14 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5153 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 77 of 158 (335533)
07-26-2006 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Omnivorous
07-26-2006 4:14 PM


Re: The randman shell game is back
We may be uneasy but when the alternative is pushing Hillary, knee-deep in selling pardons, Chinagate and such, it's hard to choose your alternative.

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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5153 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 78 of 158 (335536)
07-26-2006 5:14 PM
Reply to: Message 74 by Jazzns
07-26-2006 3:51 PM


wrong, as usual....
You asked:
How can conservatives continue to defend this president.
Simple. What is the alternative? A lot of conservatives abandoned Bush's Dad for the same sorts of high-handed, illegal government behaviour, but you guys put Clinton in there, and he was worse, as far as we are concerned, and now, your front-runner is Hillary (selling pardons, etc, etc,...).
So it's sort of like the choice between a guy does not understand Constitutional limits, and from my perspective, voting for organized crime.
Most conservatives have never unequivocally "supported Bush." I hoped he wouldn't get the nomination and thought his big spending policies were fiscally irresponsible, and think the nation could well be on it's way to bankruptcy, but you guys offer no better alternatives.
Heck, one of Kerry's mantras was that Bush "underfunded" his educational program. Underfunded? What the heck? His problem is he overfunds stuff, not underfunds stuff.
I just don't see the democrats as any better on any front. I think they are more likely to abuse their office and power (especially if Hillary is the nominee), and I think between their Union and communist connections (DNC taking direct funds from the People's Republic), I don't think the dems are a viable alternative.

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Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 129 days)
Posts: 4001
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 79 of 158 (335549)
07-26-2006 6:27 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by nwr
07-26-2006 5:05 PM


Re: The randman shell game is back
nwr writes:
I still say they need to grow some spine.
Agreed. I'm just trying to reward chordate approximations.

God gave us the earth. We have dominion over the plants, the animals, the trees. God said, ”Earth is yours. Take it. Rape it. It’s yours.’
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1598 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 80 of 158 (335552)
07-26-2006 6:52 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by nwr
07-26-2006 5:05 PM


Re: The randman shell game is back
I heard similar comments before the 2004 election. Yet many of those critics managed to find was of voting for Bush anyway.
loyalty is a dangerous thing.
I still say they need to grow some spine.
as a democrat myself, i still feel the need to point out that we're winning in the jello competition.


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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1598 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 81 of 158 (335554)
07-26-2006 6:55 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by randman
07-26-2006 1:02 PM


Re: The randman shell game is back
I criticize Bush plenty
can you refer me to a post or two of yours that criticizes bush, or the bush administration's policies?
but saying he is a dictator or wants to be is ridiculous.
well, he was elected. sort of.
but he thinks he can tell congress what to do?
and he can block judicial actions?
and he has the power to declare war without congress?
and his executive branch locks people up in foreign military prisons, without charges?
no, he's not even mildly a dictator. he's a decider.


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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1598 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 82 of 158 (335555)
07-26-2006 6:58 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by randman
07-26-2006 1:04 PM


Re: Facts are ...
jar, no you can't impeach him because it's not an impeachable offense under the standards the democrats established.
like i said, it's gonna take a blowjob. turns out that's the only impeachable offense under the clinton standard.
and i think from a guy, too. the republicans would find a way to justify with a girl -- i mean, clinton did it too. but if it was a GAY blowjob...


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randman 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5153 days)
Posts: 6367
Joined: 05-26-2005


Message 83 of 158 (335565)
07-26-2006 8:05 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by arachnophilia
07-26-2006 6:55 PM


Re: The randman shell game is back
just read my posts on this thread

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1598 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 84 of 158 (335567)
07-26-2006 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by randman
07-26-2006 8:05 PM


Re: The randman shell game is back
"clinton did it too!"

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Grunwald
Inactive Member


Message 85 of 158 (335570)
07-26-2006 8:47 PM


The fact of the matter is that this is a despicable act for any President of these United States, regardless of party. The Bush Administration wants the courts to enforce his interpretation of the law, and for Congress to pass the laws they suggest. They have a complete disregard for the Constitution, but for the facade of working under it they are working to completely undermine it legally - such as with the signing statements. Blatantly blocking an investigation into the constitutionality/legality of the NSA surveillance program reeks of fascism. I don't think that the surveillance program is legal even under FISA, but at least it made it technically legal - Bush has even skipped this pesky check and balance.
It's a slippery slope, and we're falling fast.

"We are materialists and atheists, and we glory in the fact." - Mikhail Bakunin

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4182 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 86 of 158 (335572)
07-26-2006 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by arachnophilia
07-26-2006 8:13 PM


Re: The randman shell game is back
i agree. clinton is god. i'd have his only begotten son.

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mick
Member (Idle past 5240 days)
Posts: 913
Joined: 02-17-2005


Message 87 of 158 (335583)
07-26-2006 10:14 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Grunwald
07-26-2006 8:47 PM


I am an Englishman, and of course I was not taught anything about the constitution at school - but I have picked up a bit and bob here and there, and it seems to me that the Congress is actually in defiance of the Constitution when they pass a motion that the President can wage war without congressional approval. It may not be possible to impeach Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld, but I wonder if there is any way to hold the members of Congress to account. Their passing of the motion that the President may conduct military operations without Congressional approval appears to be an abnegation of duty - illegal under the constitution.
Are there any moves to bring criminal charges against members of the congress (both Democrat and Republican) for treason?
Mick
Edited by mick, : No reason given.

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lfen
Member (Idle past 4932 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 88 of 158 (335587)
07-26-2006 10:41 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by mick
07-26-2006 10:14 PM


Well, theoretically they can vote the bums out of office but that is mostly unlikely to happen.
We are living near the summit on the descending side of empire here and the crowds want bread and circuses, that is to say nowadays fast food and 3000 channels of television.Media companies try to make the news as entertaining as possible so it can compete with umm, "reality tv?". I can't say for sure which of the two formats are more unreal.
I mean many Americans are prepared to believe that the abuse of Iraqi prisoners was masterminded by a pregnant non com. I mean officers wouldn't allow such goings on if they knew right? I guess Americans treasure their image of military officers as Dudley Doorights, all honorable and good hearted but rather stupid and it's very easy for the enlisted personnel to pull the wool over their eyes and get up to all kinds of mischief without their knowledge.
In short, I see no hope until the pain of the national debt begins to awaken some citizens to the harsh reality that they been had by the oligarchs who have co opted the democracy.
lfen

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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1598 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 89 of 158 (335589)
07-26-2006 10:43 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Grunwald
07-26-2006 8:47 PM


oh god not you too.
now slowly, all of my friends will have their lives sucked away by this board.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4182 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 90 of 158 (335591)
07-26-2006 10:53 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by lfen
07-26-2006 10:41 PM


did you see? they've acknowledged that the economy is on it's way down. see? i knew it would happen. growth in the upper spheres does nothing for the economy or the average american. soon, bush will have a legacy like all his predecessors... and all the republicans will still deny it.

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