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Author Topic:   Marriage is a civil right in the US
Damouse
Member (Idle past 5016 days)
Posts: 215
From: Brookfield, Wisconsin
Joined: 12-18-2005


Message 5 of 304 (317244)
06-03-2006 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by nator
06-03-2006 1:21 PM


Re: Basic Civil Rights
So its a basic civil right for any two consenting adults to become married? (Or should be)
the US is supposed to be about freedom not limited by anyone, not freedom that is under the jurisdiction and morality of the church. so thats an EXTREEME yes. I may not like the idea of homosexuality, but it harms me not. I also dont like the idea of pornography, but again thats one of those rights that you CANNOT restrict or take away (i.e. speech).
Edited by Damouse, : sp
Edited by Damouse, : No reason given.

-I believe in God, I just call it Nature
-One man with an imaginary friend is insane. a Million men with an imaginary friend is a religion.
-People must often be reminded that the bible did not arrive as a fax from heaven; it was written by men.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by nator, posted 06-03-2006 1:21 PM nator has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Faith, posted 06-03-2006 3:47 PM Damouse has replied

Damouse
Member (Idle past 5016 days)
Posts: 215
From: Brookfield, Wisconsin
Joined: 12-18-2005


Message 9 of 304 (317258)
06-03-2006 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Faith
06-03-2006 3:47 PM


Re: Basic Civil Rights
who exactly is "you all"?
And on the other counts, no right was set in stone, i.e. you cannot have slaves, display pornography, ect. If the right had been challenged,i.e. taken to the supreme court, it would have had to have been revoked under the first. The constitution didn't say you cannot have slaves, did it? But with the addition of the 15th(??) amendment, it became unlawful. Why are you scrounging at loopholes? It could not have listed every unlawful practice.
I cannot stand ideaologies like yours(faith) which say that the US is really a consparicy, out to get everyone, and freedom is a trick. Freedom is freedom, as long as i doesn't infringe on anyone elses' freedoms.

-I believe in God, I just call it Nature
-One man with an imaginary friend is insane. a Million men with an imaginary friend is a religion.
-People must often be reminded that the bible did not arrive as a fax from heaven; it was written by men.
-Religion is the opiate of the masses

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Faith, posted 06-03-2006 3:47 PM Faith has not replied

Damouse
Member (Idle past 5016 days)
Posts: 215
From: Brookfield, Wisconsin
Joined: 12-18-2005


Message 11 of 304 (317270)
06-03-2006 4:45 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Faith
06-03-2006 4:20 PM


You could marry a child or a dog
They would probably list it under animal abuse .

-I believe in God, I just call it Nature
-One man with an imaginary friend is insane. a Million men with an imaginary friend is a religion.
-People must often be reminded that the bible did not arrive as a fax from heaven; it was written by men.
-Religion is the opiate of the masses

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Faith, posted 06-03-2006 4:20 PM Faith has not replied

Damouse
Member (Idle past 5016 days)
Posts: 215
From: Brookfield, Wisconsin
Joined: 12-18-2005


Message 14 of 304 (317276)
06-03-2006 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by gearkat
06-03-2006 4:53 PM


In Seriousity
Key being a person of another race. Hence, dogs and other animals are not covered.
As gay people are part of a race as well, they are covered. By this analysis the government can't pass a constitutional ammendment banning gay marriages.
And on a serious note, you cant marry a child, its incest. Don't read it literally, its not how it's meant to be read. its meant to be read in juncture with the rest of the constitution and the conglomeration of laws.

-I believe in God, I just call it Nature
-One man with an imaginary friend is insane. a Million men with an imaginary friend is a religion.
-People must often be reminded that the bible did not arrive as a fax from heaven; it was written by men.
-Religion is the opiate of the masses

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by gearkat, posted 06-03-2006 4:53 PM gearkat has not replied

Damouse
Member (Idle past 5016 days)
Posts: 215
From: Brookfield, Wisconsin
Joined: 12-18-2005


Message 20 of 304 (317305)
06-03-2006 6:07 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Faith
06-03-2006 5:33 PM


If they had known that idiots were going to come along in a few decades and claim that blacks and women were meant to be included in something intended always and forever for white males, they would have changed the wording, but such idiocies never occurred to anyone prior to very recent times
You MUST be kidding me. and you list things like lack of freedom of speech and slavery, and you say this? Freedom is freedom. Noone that it offends you. If somone wants to call themselves married to somone of the same gender, thats their right. One day someone came along and said, "you know, if the founders had said slavery was wrong, they would have written it down. Very nice!"
I now see where your theory of a limited freedom America comes from.
Good job Faith! You're helping to make the world a more discriminatory place! Your ideas my dear, yes YOU, are trying to take us backwards in time. How soon will it be before Gays protest and people like you come in fire trucks to put them doen with an iron fist?

-I believe in God, I just call it Nature
-One man with an imaginary friend is insane. a Million men with an imaginary friend is a religion.
-People must often be reminded that the bible did not arrive as a fax from heaven; it was written by men.
-Religion is the opiate of the masses

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Faith, posted 06-03-2006 5:33 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by iano, posted 06-03-2006 6:17 PM Damouse has replied

Damouse
Member (Idle past 5016 days)
Posts: 215
From: Brookfield, Wisconsin
Joined: 12-18-2005


Message 22 of 304 (317312)
06-03-2006 6:20 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by iano
06-03-2006 6:17 PM


Laws
When i said Freedom is FReedom, i meant that it is exactly that, and is not to be interpereted, and there are no exceptions. "you're free, but..."
I'm not all that familiar with the American constitution. Does it say anything specific about mothers marrying sons and other such things. If not should that be permissible too?
The constitution is supposed to be a general list. for that, you'd have to look at laws. Incidentally, you cannot marry anything closer then a 3rd cousin. It's called incest, and yes, it is punishable by law.

-I believe in God, I just call it Nature
-One man with an imaginary friend is insane. a Million men with an imaginary friend is a religion.
-People must often be reminded that the bible did not arrive as a fax from heaven; it was written by men.
-Religion is the opiate of the masses

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by iano, posted 06-03-2006 6:17 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by iano, posted 06-03-2006 6:31 PM Damouse has replied

Damouse
Member (Idle past 5016 days)
Posts: 215
From: Brookfield, Wisconsin
Joined: 12-18-2005


Message 24 of 304 (317318)
06-03-2006 6:42 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by iano
06-03-2006 6:31 PM


Re: Laws
Could you define freedom with words that don't use the word freedom. We can all say this and that is not to be interpreted but it tends to short ciruit discussion. I could say "Gays cannot be married and that is not to be interpreted". But I wouldn't say that
the DOI defines freedom as "[the privlage] to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness"
Yes, if the law is changed then wives can marry their children. And yes, the gays ARE going and getting married. I think Massachusettes is one of the states that allow it, but don't quote me on that.

-I believe in God, I just call it Nature
-One man with an imaginary friend is insane. a Million men with an imaginary friend is a religion.
-People must often be reminded that the bible did not arrive as a fax from heaven; it was written by men.
-Religion is the opiate of the masses

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by iano, posted 06-03-2006 6:31 PM iano has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by iano, posted 06-03-2006 7:42 PM Damouse has replied

Damouse
Member (Idle past 5016 days)
Posts: 215
From: Brookfield, Wisconsin
Joined: 12-18-2005


Message 26 of 304 (317343)
06-03-2006 7:54 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by iano
06-03-2006 7:42 PM


Re: Laws
well then re-read the definition from the DOI. If your pursuit of happiness infringes on someone elses rights, then you cannot do that. Don't pull a faith and read everything literally. Freedom is freedom and no buts but one; you cannot infringe on the freedoms of others. I seem to be contradicting myself, but this is the final definition.
No. There is no reason Bigamy should not be allowed if a group of people wish it. I wish them good luck and good fortune. That is well within their pursuit of happiness, and they harm noone.

-I believe in God, I just call it Nature
-One man with an imaginary friend is insane. a Million men with an imaginary friend is a religion.
-People must often be reminded that the bible did not arrive as a fax from heaven; it was written by men.
-Religion is the opiate of the masses

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by iano, posted 06-03-2006 7:42 PM iano has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by DrJones*, posted 06-03-2006 7:59 PM Damouse has replied

Damouse
Member (Idle past 5016 days)
Posts: 215
From: Brookfield, Wisconsin
Joined: 12-18-2005


Message 30 of 304 (317349)
06-03-2006 8:23 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by DrJones*
06-03-2006 7:59 PM


Re: an aside
If DOI = Declaration of Independence you should know that its not a legally binding document. Rights come from your constitution, you shoudl base your arguements from that.
Yeah ik that. But somewhere up in the conversation i said "ideals te ocuntry was founded on". Hence, DOI.

-I believe in God, I just call it Nature
-One man with an imaginary friend is insane. a Million men with an imaginary friend is a religion.
-People must often be reminded that the bible did not arrive as a fax from heaven; it was written by men.
-Religion is the opiate of the masses

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by DrJones*, posted 06-03-2006 7:59 PM DrJones* has not replied

Damouse
Member (Idle past 5016 days)
Posts: 215
From: Brookfield, Wisconsin
Joined: 12-18-2005


Message 210 of 304 (318035)
06-05-2006 5:28 PM
Reply to: Message 199 by New Cat's Eye
06-05-2006 1:12 PM


Re: Come one
Yup, which is why I'm not actively against gay marriages. I think they should have some kind of marriage, I just don't like they way its going down.
marriage in what sense, religious or legal?

-I believe in God, I just call it Nature
-One man with an imaginary friend is insane. a Million men with an imaginary friend is a religion.
-People must often be reminded that the bible did not arrive as a fax from heaven; it was written by men.
-Religion is the opiate of the masses

This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-05-2006 1:12 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

Damouse
Member (Idle past 5016 days)
Posts: 215
From: Brookfield, Wisconsin
Joined: 12-18-2005


Message 212 of 304 (318048)
06-05-2006 5:48 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by Faith
06-05-2006 5:42 PM


children are from adoption. Thats been quite a point for anti-gay marriage folks as then the children will grow up gay apparently. I think they'll be heterosexual, but thats my theory.

-I believe in God, I just call it Nature
-One man with an imaginary friend is insane. a Million men with an imaginary friend is a religion.
-People must often be reminded that the bible did not arrive as a fax from heaven; it was written by men.
-Religion is the opiate of the masses

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by Faith, posted 06-05-2006 5:42 PM Faith has not replied

Damouse
Member (Idle past 5016 days)
Posts: 215
From: Brookfield, Wisconsin
Joined: 12-18-2005


Message 214 of 304 (318055)
06-05-2006 5:55 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by docpotato
06-05-2006 5:49 PM


hence adoption. I actually met a gay couple with a little chinese boys once. nice fellows. I suppose adoption is the obvious route to take with gay couples though.
"now that you're married, what next?"
"Well we're thinking about children..."
"How?!"
"Oh come on, how else?"
Edited by Damouse, : sp

-I believe in God, I just call it Nature
-One man with an imaginary friend is insane. a Million men with an imaginary friend is a religion.
-People must often be reminded that the bible did not arrive as a fax from heaven; it was written by men.
-Religion is the opiate of the masses

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by docpotato, posted 06-05-2006 5:49 PM docpotato has not replied

Damouse
Member (Idle past 5016 days)
Posts: 215
From: Brookfield, Wisconsin
Joined: 12-18-2005


Message 260 of 304 (318491)
06-06-2006 11:05 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by RickJB
06-06-2006 3:45 AM


Re: It's coming out, finally, isn't it faith?
Leaving aside the gender assumptions at work here, what difference does physical strength make to an individual pitted against the laws of the state? Laws exist to organize society around a common set of rules so that the need for violent struggle is negated.
Im forced to disagree here. If we're talking westernish world here, the purpose of government is to protect the rights of the governed. I'm not throwing this out to sound superior, i think its the sole item behiind this argument. Btw, for the government issue, see Locke,Hobbes, and even a little Montesquieu.
But the real deal. If Gov't is there only to protect the rights of the governed, then that is it's full extent. The gov't is not there to bubble-wrap things for everyone's safety (great example- prohibition in early 1900 america. The gov claimed it was for everyones god, but it did more harm then help and was revoked before it barely got settled.)
Why does this matter? Well who's rights are more at stake, the conservatives who are offended by the almost unseen presence of homosexual couples, or the gays themselves who are denied their LEGAL CONTRACT. They're not asking to be married in churches.
Ah, but you are talking about your culture!
beautifully said. When they demand entrance into your church, you can have the pleasure of kicking them out of your institution. But untill then, think a little more as a society.

-I believe in God, I just call it Nature
-One man with an imaginary friend is insane. a Million men with an imaginary friend is a religion.
-People must often be reminded that the bible did not arrive as a fax from heaven; it was written by men.
-Religion is the opiate of the masses

This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by RickJB, posted 06-06-2006 3:45 AM RickJB has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 261 by arachnophilia, posted 06-06-2006 11:58 PM Damouse has not replied

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