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Author Topic:   How beautiful is life?
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 121 of 161 (208396)
05-15-2005 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by Phat
05-15-2005 3:23 PM


Re: what? dont jump to conclusions
quote:
As for comfort in the midst of tragedy, some of us need more than the belief that we are the winners of a huge cosmic lottery and have no real significance in the same universe that we claim to be gaining understanding over.
Speak for yourself.
I certainly have "real significance" to many people.
My husband, my siblings, my nieces and nephews, to my coworkers, to the customers that I help every day, to the people at the shelter I help, to my friends.
I don't know if I have any kind of "cosmic significance", but as I can never really know the answer to that question, I just don't even try to answer it.
It frankly seems like the need of a fragile ego to have to "be significant" in a cosmic or eternal sense.
What's so meaningless about being significant to the people around you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by Phat, posted 05-15-2005 3:23 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Phat, posted 05-15-2005 3:48 PM nator has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 122 of 161 (208397)
05-15-2005 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by nator
05-15-2005 3:44 PM


Re: what? dont jump to conclusions
Because our significance is not any sort of blue ribbon for the life that we live. Our righteousness...our works...no matter if you were Mother Theresa...would not mean that you could pat yourself on the back when you died and sang Sinatras "My Way" on the way out.
Why is it so hard for you to see the One who is the standard above humanity? Alas...lets drop that appeal!
Schraff writes:
What's so meaningless about being significant to the people around you?
Because according to atheism, everything is just dust soon anyway. You equate dancing the good dance in the here and now as infinitely more important than preparing for an eternal future. I would say that both are equally important. Just know that your dance is not only a temkporary thing. What did Crowe say in Gladiator? "What we do in life echoes in eternity?"
This message has been edited by Phatboy, 05-15-2005 01:54 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by nator, posted 05-15-2005 3:44 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by nator, posted 05-15-2005 6:48 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 124 by jar, posted 05-15-2005 6:58 PM Phat has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 123 of 161 (208452)
05-15-2005 6:48 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by Phat
05-15-2005 3:48 PM


Re: what? dont jump to conclusions
quote:
Because according to atheism, everything is just dust soon anyway.
...which is why it's so important to have as positive an impact on the people you encounter as you can.
It's the love you show to people that lets you live beyond your natural years.
quote:
You equate dancing the good dance in the here and now as infinitely more important than preparing for an eternal future.
What's the difference, really?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Phat, posted 05-15-2005 3:48 PM Phat has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 124 of 161 (208456)
05-15-2005 6:58 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by Phat
05-15-2005 3:48 PM


Re: what? dont jump to conclusions
I still don't see how you separate dancing the good dance in the here and now and preparing for an eternal future. What is the difference?
If you do the former you will have done the later. Under either perspective, Theistic or Atheistic, that holds true. Under the former, you are following the Great Commandment while under the later, the aid you have given to others will help them and they in turn will help others.
As St. Paul said, "Fight the Good fight." As jesus said, "In as much as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by Phat, posted 05-15-2005 3:48 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by Phat, posted 05-16-2005 8:51 AM jar has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 125 of 161 (208570)
05-16-2005 8:30 AM
Reply to: Message 120 by Phat
05-15-2005 3:23 PM


Re: what? dont jump to conclusions
As for comfort in the midst of tragedy, some of us need more than the belief that we are the winners of a huge cosmic lottery and have no real significance in the same universe that we claim to be gaining understanding over.
But, even in Christianity, what real significance do we have? We can only have a limited influence on alimited number of people. Some have influence over more than others, but what real significance does an idividual have?
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by Phat, posted 05-15-2005 3:23 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by Phat, posted 05-16-2005 8:58 AM Brian has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 126 of 161 (208574)
05-16-2005 8:51 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by jar
05-15-2005 6:58 PM


Re: what? dont jump to conclusions
Schraff writes:
What's the difference, really?
Jar writes:
I still don't see how you separate dancing the good dance in the here and now and preparing for an eternal future. What is the difference?
If you do the former you will have done the later. Under either perspective, Theistic or Atheistic, that holds true. Under the former, you are following the Great Commandment while under the later, the aid you have given to others will help them and they in turn will help others.
I dunno, Jar...maybe you are the patron saint for atheists!
I suppose that if one were to hear a message such as yours and having been so inspired to continue the good works for the simple sake of an inner good feeling and the knowledge of a life well lived and a job well done it all would be worthwhile.
I'll let Faith or someone else argue with you about salvation as a free gift not obtainable by works. Jesus was addressing Jews when He used your Matthew 25 parable. Jews already knew better. Perhaps just as Paul was sent to the Gentiles, your message is mean't for the atheists and not for us Pharisee religious types!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by jar, posted 05-15-2005 6:58 PM jar has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 127 of 161 (208575)
05-16-2005 8:58 AM
Reply to: Message 125 by Brian
05-16-2005 8:30 AM


Re: what? dont jump to conclusions
Brian writes:
But, even in Christianity, what real significance do we have?
Apart from Christ living through us, nothing!
As for your Inquisitor Torquemada. Llorente, I would say that he had demons as vile as any that Himmler or Stalin ever had. Unlike Judaism, one does not become a Christian simply through a few rituals and a name badge. One becomes a Christian through
1) Acceptance of Jesus as savior, coupled with acknowledgement of the futileness of ones own justification
2) Impartation of the Holy Spirit(which occurs if one is sincere, and in Gods timing)
3) a daily relationship with God and continual acknowledgement and realisation of His grace and influence within. We never have any significance, but He does, living in us.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Brian, posted 05-16-2005 8:30 AM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by Brian, posted 05-16-2005 9:37 AM Phat has replied
 Message 129 by nator, posted 05-16-2005 9:53 AM Phat has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 128 of 161 (208579)
05-16-2005 9:37 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by Phat
05-16-2005 8:58 AM


Re: what? dont jump to conclusions
So you think that atheists have a worthless existence and you are happy to be nothing more than a puppet for this God?
At least we do good for the sake of doing good, and not for the hope of some eternal reward.
The thought of helping someone just for the sake of helping them must be a strange suggestion to a Christian.
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Phat, posted 05-16-2005 8:58 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by Phat, posted 05-16-2005 12:49 PM Brian has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 129 of 161 (208582)
05-16-2005 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by Phat
05-16-2005 8:58 AM


Re: what? dont jump to conclusions
quote:
Unlike Judaism, one does not become a Christian simply through a few rituals and a name badge.
Hmm, I thought that converting to Judaism was a LOT more difficult, requiring months of study to ensure you really understand the religion and the commitment involved, whereas one can become a Christian in a few minutes of being "saved".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Phat, posted 05-16-2005 8:58 AM Phat has not replied

  
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 130 of 161 (208583)
05-16-2005 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Trump won
05-11-2005 10:39 PM


Theres billions of atrocities occuring every second.
Didn't we go through this already?
quote:
The experience of life is what presents something beautiful. You're born into this world with the potential to spend each and every day getting blown by supermodels on a bed of money and tequila, or to wind up in a ditch, with a knife through your eye, covered in what you hope is your own vomit.
It's big and it's scary, and it's random and horrible and funny, and you have to hold on frikkin' tight or get blown off the edge. And that is Fucking Beautiful.
You kinda trailed off at that point.

"Go live in your Godless, beautiful world."
-Chris Simon Porteus Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Trump won, posted 05-11-2005 10:39 PM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by Trump won, posted 05-16-2005 5:00 PM Dan Carroll has not replied

  
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 131 of 161 (208584)
05-16-2005 9:54 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Trump won
05-12-2005 11:18 PM


On the plus side, thanks for the new signature.

"Go live in your Godless, beautiful world."
-Chris Simon Porteus Jr.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Trump won, posted 05-12-2005 11:18 PM Trump won has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 132 of 161 (208652)
05-16-2005 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by Brian
05-16-2005 9:37 AM


Re: what? dont jump to conclusions
Brian writes:
The thought of helping someone just for the sake of helping them must be a strange suggestion to a Christian.
I never mean't to suggest this! Christians are the same fallible humans as are atheists.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by Brian, posted 05-16-2005 9:37 AM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by Brian, posted 05-16-2005 1:34 PM Phat has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 133 of 161 (208670)
05-16-2005 1:34 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by Phat
05-16-2005 12:49 PM


Re: what? dont jump to conclusions
Why do Christians help people?
Brian.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by Phat, posted 05-16-2005 12:49 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by Alasdair, posted 05-16-2005 2:52 PM Brian has replied

  
Alasdair
Member (Idle past 5750 days)
Posts: 143
Joined: 05-13-2005


Message 134 of 161 (208698)
05-16-2005 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by Brian
05-16-2005 1:34 PM


Re: what? dont jump to conclusions
For the same reason atheists do.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by Brian, posted 05-16-2005 1:34 PM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by Brian, posted 05-16-2005 3:38 PM Alasdair has replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 135 of 161 (208713)
05-16-2005 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Alasdair
05-16-2005 2:52 PM


Re: what? dont jump to conclusions
Which would be?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Alasdair, posted 05-16-2005 2:52 PM Alasdair has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by Alasdair, posted 05-16-2005 4:46 PM Brian has replied

  
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