Afghan Christian released

I already said what loving the Muslim is and your suggestion of leaving him in his unforgiven sins is hatred of him. Certainly the first four of your recommendations are loving him and I'm all for them. The fifth is not necessary but as a matter of fact I have nothing at all against visiting mosques and nothing against anybody learning about Islam either, but if they follow Islam they are doomed to a miserable eternity so encouraging that would be the opposite of love.This message has been edited by Faith, 03-29-2006 11:56 AM

The reason I didn't answer your post 255 is that it is too huge, and I've already said my piece on most of it.

So YOU claim. And that is why most Christians are Goats and will be shuffled off into the goat-herd when it comes to judgement time, while many Atheists, Satanists, Pagans, Jews, Muslims, Taoists, Hindus, Buddhists, Agnostics and followers of the Great IPU will be among the sheep.That is what the Bible says, that is what the Creeds say, that is the Two Great Commandments, that is the message of Christ.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

message 239:

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One set of laws is in a book considered to have been written by men, in their best effort to understand G-d. It does not proscibe change. The other is considered to be the exact, perfect, FINAL, word of Allah....

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Again, this seems like special pleading. There are and have been Christians who viewed their Bible as the final word of God and justified violence and intolerance based on there interpretation of it, just as there are and have been Muslims who view the Quran as the final word of God and used it to justify violence and intolerance.-- message 241:

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The War verses are instructions from Allah in perpetuity.

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This is not the issue. The issue here is that you have quoted the verses out of context, and used mangled versions of the translations, and so these verses are "instructions" for very different behavior than you make them out to be.-- message 243:

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First, Christian theology is very muddy, in my opinion, about who jesus actually was.

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Your opinion is irrelevant. The point is that the Christian Bible contains "War Verses". They are an integral part of the Christian Bible, and there have been Christians who have used these verses to justify violence and intolerance from the very earliest times. By the criteria that you are using in the case of Islam, this makes Christianity, at its core, inherently incompatible with democracy and human rights, and it is only by abandoning the core elements of their faith that modern Christians can live peaceably in a democratic society.

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"Religion is the best business to be in. It's the only one where the customers blame themselves for product failure."
-- Ellis Weiner (quoted on the NAiG message board)

Not to mention, western imperialism began to be violently opposed by the indigenous peoples who suffered under it. Western imperialism didn't grind to a halt because the west magnanimously declined to expand any farther; it ground to a halt because expansion became impossible.So what makes you think that Islamic expansionism and imperialism won't suffer the same fate? What leads you to characterize it as an infinite movement with no forseeable end? I'd like to see your support for this assertion.

1) The post is broken into three different pieces. Your name is clearly on a section. Just read the section... it is not that long.2) You haven't begun to address the points I made there. Maybe you never had anything to say on these subjects, but that would be disappointing.The example of honesty and courage you guys provide is less than inspiring.

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holmes
"Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." (Lovecraft)

It certainly doesn't inspire me to respond to posts to be accused like this.

Your points have been answered many times elsewhere, and perhaps even on this thread. Sorry I don't feel inspired to work on it more at the moment. Perhaps some other time.This message has been edited by Faith, 03-29-2006 02:37 PM

Interstingly enough you brought them up phat, they headed the exstermination of muslims in berber controled spain, during thier riegn

Then perhaps we should make the US a Christian Theocracy and outlaw those Satan-inspired religions. If we make everyone go to Christian Church surely more of them would accept Christ as their personal Savior than would if we left things as they are now.
ABE---Wouldn't that be truly loving our neighbor?This message has been edited by LinearAq, 03-29-2006 04:37 PM

Of course not. You can't force someone to believe and I don't believe in forcing anything on anyone (Islam does though). All I said was they need to be TOLD about the falseness of Islam and their need of Christ. What they do with the information is their own business, but not to tell them is to hate them.

Well we disagree on the meaning of jsut about everything Christian, jar, nothing new there. Very little we agree on in the end, right? The creeds and the Bible itself even mean the opposite to you they mean to me I believe, as I've been finding out Jesus' own words mean the opposite to Ringo and the Rev that they do to me. Not just different interpretations, the exact opposite. Staggering to think about really.I think you said you believe in the resurrection of Christ. Maybe that's the entire area of our agreement. I think you've said you believe Jesus is God too, or did I get that wrong? You believe He's Jehovah-God of the Old Testament? Or Yahweh or whichever term you prefer. I can't remember if you said you believe that. Do you believe in the virgin birth? Do you believe Jesus became incarnate in order to live for us and die for us? Do you believe His death paid for our sins? No, I don't think you believe that do you?This message has been edited by Faith, 03-29-2006 04:51 PM

No, you can't force someone to believe but you can force them to be exposed to the church. What's wrong with that? You could further the Great Commission without having to actually witness to anyone who was not in church.
BTW...You certainly do believe in forcing someone to go to church because you support parents bringing their children to church despite the desires of those children. (no worries, I also believe children should be forced to do some things they don't like....school...etc) I don't think jar said that he wouldn't tell them about his relationship with Christ.

I said TELL THEM ABOUT THEIR NEED FOR CHRIST, not about one's own "relationship with Christ" which means too many things, and is not the gospel in any case. The gospel is that Christ came to save them from their sins.I already said I don't believe in forcing people to do anything. Did I really need to say adults?I see, you think children should only be "forced" to do what YOU approve of parents requiring them to do. Interesting.This message has been edited by Faith, 03-29-2006 05:05 PM

Looks like it's question jar's beliefs instead of answering points time once again. LOLMany times I've told you that I am a Creedal Christian, one who believes those items in the Nicene and Apostles Creed.But let me deal with a few of your questions. Yes, the Christian GOD is the same God as that of the Old Testament, the New Testament and the Koran. One GOD three religions. To live for us. Dying is simply part of living. If Jesus had not been crucified he wouold have died of old age or accident or desease. Jesus during his lifetime was completely human. Not exactly. Again, I've covered this many times here at EvC but one more can't hurt.GOD forgave mankind. All mankind. As a sign, and to help teach us, GOD begot Jesus, a man. The sacrifice is GOD becoming man, with all the limitations that entails. For us, and for our salvation, GOD came down from heaven and became man.The "For us" is all mankind. Not just one small subset. It was a gift, freely given.The "for our salvation" is the message, the Gospel. GOD said, "Look kids, you are all my children and I love you, but here are a set of conditions I want you to follow".They are really simple; Love GOD and the two parter, love others as you love your self. He went further and actually laid out exactly how we should love GOD, that is what Matthew 25 is all about.Loving GOD is not knowing him, not praying to him, not acknowledging him, not professing him, it's doing. It's doing little things, not even big things. It's being kind, trying to do what's right, getting things down from a high shelf for those who can't reach them, kneeling down when you talk to kids so you are at their level not towering above, reading stories to kids or telling them ones, opening doors for folk if their arms or full, or helping them unload their cart at the checkout line.It doesn't matter if you know GOD, deny GOD, call GOD Fred, none of those are loving GOD. Loving GOD is what you do, and supporting oppression like the Defense of Marriage Act or promoting Ghettos of Holy Ignorance like so many Christian Schools seem to do, or ranting about how a Muslim is not loving GOD or that an Atheist is going to Hell is not loving GOD.No, much of Christianity has lost its way. That is why the goats will likely be mostly Christians. Things like the 700 Club, UCLJ, Televangelists, the great Mega Churches, they are not loving GOD, they are the goats. I know Atheists and Wiccans that love GOD more than many Christians.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion