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Author Topic:   Let's talk about food
iano
Member (Idle past 1940 days)
Posts: 6165
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 256 of 288 (268833)
12-13-2005 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 254 by nator
12-09-2005 1:31 PM


Re: Schraf and pop tarts
I'd say that Kellogg's loves our money more than they care a whit about our health
Having worked in the processed food industry for 13 years or so there are a couple of general pointers to indicate that your use of the word 'whit' is an overstatement.
In the thousands of meetings I've been at in which production efficiency, yield, new product development,packaging design, etc. have been discussed (ad nauseum) I have never once heard the word 'nutrition' being mentioned. Not once.
Processed food production axiom: "Water is only slightly more expensive than air. Flour only slightly more expensive that water. The more of each of these things you can pack into the product the better"
There is nothing that a manufacturer will not do to add weight to meat. Ingredient declarations are not a barrier to this (you could use cyanide as a 'processing aid' and not have to declare it in the ingredients)
Our current quality manager refuses to eat processed food in which direct handling-by-humans forms any portion of it's manufacture.
Our last quality manager refused to eat green leaf vegetables. He came from a green leaf plant processing plant. He never said why though
If it says "serve piping hot" it ain't kidding
The ranking structure of the 3 main operational manager in a typical food processing factory: Production Manager > Engineering Manager > Quality Manager.

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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3977
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 257 of 288 (268842)
12-13-2005 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by iano
12-13-2005 2:36 PM


Re: Schraf and pop tarts
My grandfather worked as an accountant at a meat packing plant. Any meat he bought for his own use had to come from the farmer who raised the animal; he would drive far outside the city to find this.
When I asked him why one day, he shuddered slightly and gave me a sorrowful look: "You don't want to know."
Among the many low-end jobs I worked at in my footloose youth were busboy in a hotel's formal dining room, cafeteria prep cook, and diner short-order cook.
We rarely eat out.

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Replies to this message:
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FliesOnly
Member (Idle past 4144 days)
Posts: 797
From: Michigan
Joined: 12-01-2003


Message 258 of 288 (268860)
12-13-2005 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 257 by Omnivorous
12-13-2005 2:59 PM


Re: Schraf and pop tarts
Almost all of the meat my wife and I consume is the result of something we "gathered" ourselves. As a matter of fact...my wife is at this very moment standing up a tree with a bow in her hand hoping to "gather" us a bit more. A majority of the remaining meat we consume comes from a pig we butcher ourselves. A fraction of any other meats we do happen to buy come from either an organic farm or, on very rare occasions, a deli down state (Detroit). We buy our poultry from either the Amish or an organic farm near the Amish. Our eggs come from a friend that has "free range chickens" (eggs purchased from a store come nowhere near the quality and taste these eggs). We also have a garden and grow quite a few of our own vegetables.
Still, though...I friggen love pop tarts. And I do admit to enjoying eating out at a nice restaurant on occasion.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by Omnivorous, posted 12-13-2005 2:59 PM Omnivorous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 259 by Omnivorous, posted 12-13-2005 4:40 PM FliesOnly has replied
 Message 261 by robinrohan, posted 12-13-2005 6:15 PM FliesOnly has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3977
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 259 of 288 (268890)
12-13-2005 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 258 by FliesOnly
12-13-2005 3:29 PM


Re: Schraf and pop tarts
Still, though...I friggen love pop tarts. And I do admit to enjoying eating out at a nice restaurant on occasion.
Almost all of the meat my wife and I consume is the result of something we "gathered" ourselves. As a matter of fact...my wife is at this very moment standing up a tree with a bow in her hand hoping to "gather" us a bit more. A majority of the remaining meat we consume comes from a pig we butcher ourselves. A fraction of any other meats we do happen to buy come from either an organic farm or, on very rare occasions, a deli down state (Detroit). We buy our poultry from either the Amish or an organic farm near the Amish. Our eggs come from a friend that has "free range chickens" (eggs purchased from a store come nowhere near the quality and taste these eggs). We also have a garden and grow quite a few of our own vegetables.
Still, though...I friggen love pop tarts. And I do admit to enjoying eating out at a nice restaurant on occasion.
Oh, hell yeah: I don't care that much for pop tarts, but white cheddar cheez-its....ooh la la!
We too occasionally enjoy a fine restaurant; usually ethnic though, say Thai or Malay... I love to cook, and routine fare like breakfast or meat 'n taters is usually better at home.
I do make a mean panang curry.
When I was a kid, if we had meat on the table, it was because my old man shot it (usually after I flushed it--miracle I survived ): venison, squirrel, rabbit, quail, pheasant, turkey, catfish, carp, bluegill, crappie. I longed to eat "store meat" like the other kids and to this day have little taste for game, though fresh fish is fine.
Can't stand to eat salmon, either, because we went through some hard years eating salmon cakes my mother made from cheap canned salmon, often served with cream of potato soup, sometimes several times a week: I still go pale at the scent of salmon...

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 258 by FliesOnly, posted 12-13-2005 3:29 PM FliesOnly has replied

Replies to this message:
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Ben!
Member (Idle past 1398 days)
Posts: 1161
From: Hayward, CA
Joined: 10-14-2004


Message 260 of 288 (268895)
12-13-2005 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 259 by Omnivorous
12-13-2005 4:40 PM


Re: Schraf and pop tarts
We too occasionally enjoy a fine restaurant; usually ethnic though, say Thai or Malay
In New Haven?? Are there any decent places? When I go home (Manchester area), I don't venture out except to accompany family. I've had good Thai in Seattle (Malay too), but never in Connecticut. And my grandparents live in East Haven / New Haven... I just wouldn't be able to imagine it.
I do make a mean panang curry.
I am so jealous. Teach me!
And if you know how to make Phad See Iew, bring it on brotha!
Ben

This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by Omnivorous, posted 12-13-2005 4:40 PM Omnivorous has replied

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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 261 of 288 (268940)
12-13-2005 6:15 PM
Reply to: Message 258 by FliesOnly
12-13-2005 3:29 PM


Re: Schraf and pop tarts
Almost all of the meat my wife and I consume is the result of something we "gathered" ourselves. As a matter of fact...my wife is at this very moment standing up a tree with a bow in her hand hoping to "gather" us a bit more. A majority of the remaining meat we consume comes from a pig we butcher ourselves. A fraction of any other meats we do happen to buy come from either an organic farm or, on very rare occasions, a deli down state (Detroit). We buy our poultry from either the Amish or an organic farm near the Amish. Our eggs come from a friend that has "free range chickens" (eggs purchased from a store come nowhere near the quality and taste these eggs). We also have a garden and grow quite a few of our own vegetables.
What would be the reason for this unusual behavior? Are you following the dictates of a moral code?
This message has been edited by robinrohan, 12-13-2005 05:16 PM

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Replies to this message:
 Message 263 by FliesOnly, posted 12-14-2005 9:54 AM robinrohan has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3977
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 262 of 288 (269031)
12-13-2005 10:01 PM
Reply to: Message 260 by Ben!
12-13-2005 4:44 PM


Re: Schraf and pop tarts
Your gramps live in 'Staven, the home of big hair?
The New Haven area has several fine Thai restaurants, and at least two very good Malay places. There has been an explosion of ethnic cuisine in New Haven over the past decade--Asian, Afrian, South American.
I'll put together a list and pass it along. We also have several excellent Asian grocery stores, so Thai noodles, curry pastes, coconut milk, lemon grass, etc. are widely available.
The panang curry is easy; I'll write it down next time I make it.
And next time you pass through, let me know: my treat.

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FliesOnly
Member (Idle past 4144 days)
Posts: 797
From: Michigan
Joined: 12-01-2003


Message 263 of 288 (269161)
12-14-2005 9:54 AM
Reply to: Message 261 by robinrohan
12-13-2005 6:15 PM


Re: Some food is just better.
robinrohan writes:
What would be the reason for this unusual behavior?
I'm not sure what you think is "unusual"...
robinrohan writes:
Are you following the dictates of a moral code?
...but this may give me some idea.
No, we’re not really following some sort of a moral code. A goodly amount of the justification behind our food gathering life style can be attributed two factors. First, both my wife and I love the out-of-doors. Hunting and fishing, as well as working in the garden are things we truly love to do. Second, the price and quality of many food items nowadays is ridiculous...and many "store bought" items, especially vegetables, taste like ...well they taste like nothing. They have little to no flavor. Store bought tomatoes are a great example. Sure they're big...sure they're red (sometimes), but often times they have no taste. Apples too. Huge, red, perfect apples that taste like cardboard are not a wise purchase in my book.
Let’s talk eggs. Have you ever had eggs produced by a handful of chickens that are running loose around a small farm, as opposed to eggs from large poultry farms where thousands of chickens are forced to "sit" in some sort of nest box and pump out egg after egg after egg? Trust me, there is no comparison. NPR actually had a story last week, and it mentioned a study that showed that free range chicken eggs have less than half the cholesterol and significantly more protein than store bought.
Now, as for our meats, I do admit to being a carnivore. I love meat. I love a nice big thick juicy steak on occasion but hey, a really good cut of meat can be very expensive, and I have no idea how long it has been on display (I know, I know, there are ways to tell how "fresh" it is...but there are also ways to attempt to get around that too) nor do I know how many hormones, or drugs, or any other sort of "unwanted crap" had been fed to the animal prior to butchering. When we are successful and take some wild game (mostly deer), I am relatively unworried about the meat (some concerns obviously exist). And besides, if you do like meat, it's really hard to beat fresh tenderloin. It's like butter. And my wife also LOVES to cook (I can't thank you enough, Schrafinator, for the olive oils). What a great combo . A) a gorgeous wife that B), loves to hunt (bow hunting is her passion. She can spend hours up a tree, standing on a little stand not much bigger than a cafeteria tray, waiting motionless for a deer to come by), and C) loves to cook. I’m a lucky lucky man.
Now, let me explain the "pork". My wife and I purchase a pig each summer, which is then raised (at an undisclosed location, not our home) with three other pigs. They are fed grain and "table scraps" and then at the end of the summer we (usually me, my wife and two or three others) butcher all three. My wife hates pork, if purchased from a typical market. This pork, however, is fantastic. Again, if you like meat, trust me when I tell you that you will definitely be able to tell the difference between pork chops from our pig and the crap you buy in a store. We give away a bit of our pork to some of our close friends . and I kid you not when I say that all of them have told us how much better it is than anything they have ever had before. Most of them will no longer buy their pork, but instead will get it from us.
So, no, we do not really follow some moral code. We just prefer venison to store bought beef...fresh pork, with no preservatives (salt) or artificail coloring, or water added, to store bought pork...vegetables that are fresh and flavorful, to old and bland...and eggs that are not only good...but good for you too, to mass produced colorless garbage.
And lastly, we get a great amount of joy in "harvesting" these items.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by robinrohan, posted 12-13-2005 6:15 PM robinrohan has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 269 by robinrohan, posted 12-14-2005 11:29 AM FliesOnly has replied
 Message 272 by jar, posted 12-14-2005 3:16 PM FliesOnly has replied
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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 264 of 288 (269169)
12-14-2005 10:14 AM
Reply to: Message 263 by FliesOnly
12-14-2005 9:54 AM


Re: Some food is just better.
that's awesome. i just don't have time for it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by FliesOnly, posted 12-14-2005 9:54 AM FliesOnly has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 267 by FliesOnly, posted 12-14-2005 11:02 AM macaroniandcheese has replied

  
FliesOnly
Member (Idle past 4144 days)
Posts: 797
From: Michigan
Joined: 12-01-2003


Message 265 of 288 (269185)
12-14-2005 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 259 by Omnivorous
12-13-2005 4:40 PM


Re: Schraf and pop tarts
Omnivorous writes:
Oh, hell yeah: I don't care that much for pop tarts, but white cheddar cheez-its....ooh la la!
My wife and our pooch love white cheddar cheez-its. Me...I'm not so much a cheese fan.
Omnivorous writes:
We too occasionally enjoy a fine restaurant; usually ethnic though, say Thai or Malay...
Not an option for us. Where I live, Applebee’s is considered a fine dining establishment, and Taco Bell is about as ethnic as you’re going to get (ignoring, of course, the seven or eight “Chinese” places).
Once, while in Edmonton with a friend we ate at a Malaysian restaurant. Our friend, being from Edmonton and hence, familiar with the establishment, suggested some items to order. One of them was some sort of soup/stew. To be perfectly honest, I didn't try it...I couldn't get passed the smell. It was awful (at least to my nose). It reminded me of a situation a few years earlier where I had to "deal" with a dead, 12 ft python that had been stored in a walk-in cooler. The cooler broke down, but since the fan motors where still running, the room heated up to about 100 degrees (F) . and was not noticed for about a week and a half! Needless to say, the snake went bad. Here's the kicker though. I was told that everything was cleaned out and disposed of. Imagine my surprise when four years later I returned to the University, now as an employee, only to discover that that fucking snake was still in there. Can you imagine the smell? It was god awful, and I was the one that had to deal with it. And then, a couple years later, I find myself in a Malaysian restaurant and I get a whiff of something they claim to be food, but to my nose, was a dead, terribly rotten and smelly, 12 foot snake. Sorry, but I could not bring myself to even give it a try.
Omnivorous writes:
I love to cook, and routine fare like breakfast or meat 'n taters is usually better at home.
I agree.
Omnivorous writes:
I do make a mean panang curry.
Please don't rescind your offer to stop by you 66 acres sometime...but I hate curry. Which is sad, cuz my wife loves the stuff. She's bummed that she cannot make curry dishes when I'm home (she's very sweet and will make something we both like).
Omnivorous writes:
When I was a kid, if we had meat on the table, it was because my old man shot it (usually after I flushed it--miracle I survived ): venison, squirrel, rabbit, quail, pheasant, turkey, catfish, carp, bluegill, crappie. I longed to eat "store meat" like the other kids and to this day have little taste for game, though fresh fish is fine.
We have cut back on what we will hunt. We pretty much stick with deer and turkeys, but will take a few squirrels occasionally (personally, I think squirrel is the best of the small game meats). And if I never see anther rabbit again, it'll be too soon. I lived on rabbits throughout grad school. I think I had it prepared every figgen way possible and will never eat one again.
Carp? Thanks, but no.
Omnivorous writes:
Can't stand to eat salmon, either, because we went through some hard years eating salmon cakes my mother made from cheap canned salmon, often served with cream of potato soup, sometimes several times a week: I still go pale at the scent of salmon...
Oddly enough, I really eat very little fish. I love to fish, but rarely keep any for myself (the avatar fish was for my father-in-law). I don't really care for the taste...it tastes "fishy" to me...go figure.

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 266 of 288 (269186)
12-14-2005 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 265 by FliesOnly
12-14-2005 10:47 AM


Re: Schraf and pop tarts
To be perfectly honest, I didn't try it...I couldn't get passed the smell. It was awful (at least to my nose).
haha. i find that south east asian food smells very different than it tastes. the first time i had green indian curry i thought i was gonna vomit. it smelled wretched. but i ate it and now i'm hooked.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by FliesOnly, posted 12-14-2005 10:47 AM FliesOnly has not replied

  
FliesOnly
Member (Idle past 4144 days)
Posts: 797
From: Michigan
Joined: 12-01-2003


Message 267 of 288 (269194)
12-14-2005 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 264 by macaroniandcheese
12-14-2005 10:14 AM


Re: Some food is just better.
brennakimi writes:
that's awesome. i just don't have time for it.
You may catch some grief from others about "not having the time", but not from me.
I agree, our style of obtaining food does indeed take time and effort. However, we are fortunate in that where we live, the time aspect is significantly reduced. My wife literally walks out our garage door, continues for 100 feet or so and climbs up one of the three tree in which she has placed a bow stand. Turkeys walk passed our house almost everyday. I once counted over eighty before giving up and stopping (my guess is that there were over a hundred).
So, we do have a definite time advantage over other people we know that often travel for hours just to find a place to hunt. And like I said, the "food" is so much better.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 264 by macaroniandcheese, posted 12-14-2005 10:14 AM macaroniandcheese has replied

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macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3927 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 268 of 288 (269200)
12-14-2005 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 267 by FliesOnly
12-14-2005 11:02 AM


Re: Some food is just better.
thanks. sorry. i'm so busy with papers and the crappy job i'm trying to keep just so i can say i kept a job for more than 6 months. retail and hospitality combined with the semester system don't make for good records.
i'd love to move into a cave in the mountains in idaho and never see another human being and live on the work of my hands, but as it is, i also want to be an academic and that tends to involve lots of money (-) and lots of people (+) and lots of being around 'civilization' which involves rent and crap. thus i must make a stiff living. *sigh*

This message is a reply to:
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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 269 of 288 (269204)
12-14-2005 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 263 by FliesOnly
12-14-2005 9:54 AM


Re: Some food is just better.
A) a gorgeous wife that B), loves to hunt (bow hunting is her passion. She can spend hours up a tree, standing on a little stand not much bigger than a cafeteria tray, waiting motionless for a deer to come by),
So you have a gorgeous wife who kills deer with a bow and arrow near your back yard. And you don't find that unusual?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by FliesOnly, posted 12-14-2005 9:54 AM FliesOnly has replied

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FliesOnly
Member (Idle past 4144 days)
Posts: 797
From: Michigan
Joined: 12-01-2003


Message 270 of 288 (269244)
12-14-2005 1:01 PM
Reply to: Message 269 by robinrohan
12-14-2005 11:29 AM


Re: Some food is just better.
robinrohan writes:
So you have a gorgeous wife who kills deer with a bow and arrow near your back yard. And you don't find that unusual?
Not in the least. My wife also butchers all of the game we kill (she labels each package with the actual muscle name...in tiny, perfect handwriting..."Deer, Bow, 2005, Gastrocnemius",...it's very cute), does taxidermy, and all the while is a professor actively engaged in teaching and research.
And technically, she kills the deer IN our frontyard, not near it. We have no yard (well, very little), it's all woods, with the exceptions of a small opening and a wetland.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by robinrohan, posted 12-14-2005 11:29 AM robinrohan has not replied

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