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Author | Topic: What would your doctor say? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: ...just as yours are.
quote: ...just as you will. You may believe in an afterlife but you don't know you are going anywhere. Nobody does.
quote: Yes, because there is no evidence of the supernatural. I am open to evidence, however. You, on the other hand, are not open in the same way but in the contrary. You will discount any argument that might cause you to doubt, no matter how strong.
quote: Exactly what is "mainline Atheistic thinking"?
quote: ...which is just as valid as any of your beliefs, both being based upon supposition and subjective imagination.
quote: Yes, reason is the way to truth about the natural world. If it is the way to Truth, I don't know. You believe that belief in the supernatural is the way to Truth, but you don't know.
quote: Yes. Seems to have worked really well in the course of human events up until now, don'tcha think, or do you suggest that we continue to believe that the sun is driven across the sky in a firey chariot? Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Why are you insinuating "duress" into the picture? What, do you think that the researchers, when collecting the data, made the people, either in the general popularion or in the prisons, announce their religious affiliation to everyone else?
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Why are you insinuating "duress" into the picture? Being in prison is duress enough. You watch what you say if you want to get out of there.
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deerbreh Member (Idle past 2893 days) Posts: 882 Joined: |
Whether or not God exists, both atheists and agnostics reject any notions of submission to God. Both atheism and agnosticism are continuums so I don't think you can generalize in this way. Each person can only speak for their own beliefs. For example I am an atheist if we are talking about an omniscient, omnipotent God that intervenes as an OUTSIDE force in human history. I am a believer in a God who is present in humans and motivates humans to do good. I am an agnostic about the nature and extent of God'presence in animals and the rest of nature.
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RickJB Member (Idle past 4991 days) Posts: 917 From: London, UK Joined: |
deerbreh writes: I don't think you can generalize in this way Well I agree it was a generalization. My point was simply that those groups are less likely to lead their lives according to the man-made doctrines attributed to a God whose existence is either false, or unknowable. I should really have added some form of qualification. It is interesting, however, how many people who identify themselves as non-religious will nonetheless freely entertain their own notions of God. God is less a figure of authority and more a flight of their own imagination.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Why are you insinuating "duress" into the picture? quote: Like I said: What, do you think that the researchers, when collecting the data, made the people, either in the general popularion or in the prisons, announce their religious affiliation to everyone else? Why do you think that someone would give false information if it isn't going to be shared with anyone else? I do not know for sure but it is likely that none of them even gave their names. But let's say you are right, and the self-reporting by those in prison is inaccurate. Are you claiming that people in the general population are under some "duress", too, so their self reporting of religious identification cannot be believed, either? And, since you have continued to ignore these questions, I'll continue to repeat them: Besides that, are you saying that no one is to be believed when they tell another what their religious identification is? For example, when you say that you do not believe in God, you are answering automatically and it is meaningless? And when Faith says that she is a Christian, she is not to be believed, and that it is meaningles that she states this? Why, then, is there a difference in the percentage of Christians and Atheists in the prison population compared to the general population?
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Are you claiming that people in the general population are under some "duress", too, so their self reporting of religious identification cannot be believed, either? Well, I certainly would not discuss my nihilism publicly, such as at work. Yes, there is a little pressure.
Besides that, are you saying that no one is to be believed when they tell another what their religious identification is? No, I'm not saying that.
For example, when you say that you do not believe in God, you are answering automatically and it is meaningless? And when Faith says that she is a Christian, she is not to be believed, and that it is meaningles that she states this? No, but neither of us is in prison, unless Faith got picked up today.
Why, then, is there a difference in the percentage of Christians and Atheists in the prison population compared to the general population? The population in prison is skewed toward the uneducated. Uneducated people tend to make automatic statements. Moreover, prison is a special place where one is watched. Edited by robinrohan, : No reason given.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Would you feel pressure to lie on an anonymous demographics form?
Besides that, are you saying that no one is to be believed when they tell another what their religious identification is? quote: Well, can we believe people when they self report their religious identification or not? You said that such data was worthless.
Why, then, is there a difference in the percentage of Christians and Atheists in the prison population compared to the general population? quote: Says who? Are you saying that people in prison are too dumb to know what religion they are? Got any real data to back that rather remarkable claim, or is this another one of those things that you, robin, just "know"? However, you are almost there with me... Uneducated people tend to be more religious, and, specifically in our country, Christian. So, the prison population should be skewed towards Christians and should be higher than that found in the general population. Guess what? That's what we see.
quote: But the general population is not. What about those numbers? Are they worthless?
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RickJB Member (Idle past 4991 days) Posts: 917 From: London, UK Joined: |
iano writes: - everytime I come to mystery I will tend to suspend my question until a naturalistic solution comes along. Goddidit is athema to me Tend to suspend the question? What does that mean? Surely you mean "attempt to answer"? Also, a "naturalist solution" as opposed to what? A spiritual solution? Will faith make an aircraft fly? Will faith make your motorcycle run? The fact that "naturalist solutions" HAVE been found must surely validate empirical methods, don't you agree? So what are you arguing against? All of science? Just remember that if the scientists who first identified electromagnetism went only in search of "spiritual answers" then you wouldn't be posting forum messages on a computer powered by a national grid.... Edited by RickJB, : No reason given. Edited by RickJB, : No reason given.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Robin, it is true that there is often pressure to identify with one group or another, especially in certain circumstances, such as in prison.
Do you think that scientists are so stupid and clueless that they don't know about this, and that they don't design experiments to minimize these kinds of things?
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Uneducated people tend to be more religious, and, specifically in our country, Christian. In name, yes. It doesn't mean much for somebody who's never given it a moment's thought. In our country, it is considered GOOD to be religious in some sense of that word. So they pick up on that and say they are religious.
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Do you think that scientists are so stupid and clueless that they don't know about this, and that they don't design experiments to minimize these kinds of things? No, but this matter is not something that can be calculated scientifically. It all depends on what one means by "religious."
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
Uneducated people tend to be more religious, and, specifically in our country, Christian. quote: How do you know that they have never given it a moment's thought?
quote: Again, how do you know this?
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Again, how do you know this? Experience.
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nator Member (Idle past 2170 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Robin. The scientific question is, "What religious group do people in certain populations self-identifywith?" It doesn't matter how anybody else but the people being asked the question define "Buddhist" or "Jewish" or "Catholic", etc.
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