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Author | Topic: What would your doctor say? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
MangyTiger Member (Idle past 6353 days) Posts: 989 From: Leicester, UK Joined: |
In may ways the agnostic position is really just a debating defense. That's not the case for me. It is simply a reflection of my personal thoughts on the question of whether there is a God or not. In my teen years I was an atheist and was convinced there could not possibly be a God. As I moved into my twenties I decided it was arrogant to think I could know that with such certainty - but as I still saw no evidence for a God (especially the Judeo-Christian God) that left agnosticism as the only viable option. I agree though with whoever mentioned earlier that in practical terms there is little, if any, difference between my being agnostic or atheist. Oops! Wrong Planet
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3977 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 7.3 |
Hi, Rick.
There's is no point in my correcting Ian again, since his response has become mere repetition. Agnostics are not atheists for all practical purposes, and agnosticism is not a debating stance--at least not to this agnostic. To Ian, it's a matter of "us and everybody else," and for his purposes there is no point (or rhetorical profit) in making any further distinctions. To a bird, foxes and cats may seem one and the same for all practical purposes, since neither flies and both eat birds--but they are not, in fact, the same. Here is my most recent response to Ian's insistence that cats are actually foxes. As to the topic (remember that?), my doctor would say, "Oi vey! So... what'd He say?" God gave us the earth. We have dominion over the plants, the animals, the trees. God said, ”Earth is yours. Take it. Rape it. It’s yours.’ --Ann Coulter, Fox-TV: Hannity & Colmes, 20 Jun 01 Save lives! Click here!Join the World Community Grid with Team EvC! ---------------------------------------
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deerbreh Member (Idle past 2892 days) Posts: 882 Joined: |
An agnostic is an athiest for all practical purposes. It must be great to know what everyone else is thinking. Makes all of that conversation and debate completely unnecessary. Not to mention how much simpler the world is when everyone is in their neat little boxes - Christians/atheists, Creationists/Darwinists, Republicans/Democrats, Conservatives/Liberals. Good people/evil people, etc. Edited by deerbreh, : No reason given.
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nator Member (Idle past 2169 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Oh, so you just know. Why on earth do we bother to carefully collect religious demographic data when robin can just tell us that it's all meaningless.
quote: How they act is completely irrelevant what they believe, so this argument is irrelevant.
quote: I agree, which is why the percentage range of Atheist is so large. Somewhere around 13% of people say that they have no religious affiliation and do not consider themselves spiritual, yet they do not classify themselves as Atheists or Agnostics. However, you haven't answered my questions. Are you saying that no one is to be believed when they state their religious affiliation? You also still haven't accounted for the discrepancy in the numbers. Edited by schrafinator, : No reason given.
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nator Member (Idle past 2169 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Wrong. Agnosticism: the only consistent, honest conclusion one can come to on the subject of the supernatural, namely, "I don't know."
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iano Member (Idle past 1940 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
It must be great to know what everyone else is thinking. Its not quite as complex as you make it seem. It is fairly black and white. For God/against God. In Adam/In Christ. Saved/Not (yet and possibly not ever) saved. Christian/non-Christian. Etc. Now if that is the case then it there isn't as much diversity as you might think. Islam, Atheism, Hinduism, Roman Catholicism, Agnosticism. All the same side of the very same coin. All sharing the same features in essence: denial of God as is revealed Arrogant, exclusive and extreme? That is one logical possibility. The other is that it is true. And if it is true, it will sound very arrogant, exclusive and extreme. Sounding arrogant, exclusive and extreme is patently not a measure to be trusted in any objective sense.
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iano Member (Idle past 1940 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
Agnosticism: the only consistent, honest conclusion one can come to on the subject of the supernatural, namely, "I don't know." "And whilst I occupy that postion" - my morals are relative- I eat, drink and be merry for die I know I shall" - my arguments will tend to oppose those of the "God exists" side. I will find I am, by and large, in agreement with mainline atheistic thinking. - I will (if secretly - for only an agnostic can answer this for themselves) suppose that if there is a God then "I'm not such a bad chap, God will understand" - from the above: reason is the way to truth. I will rely on myself (very atheistic-think) - everytime I come to mystery I will tend to suspend my question until a naturalistic solution comes along. Goddidit is athema to me And so forth...
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iano Member (Idle past 1940 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
Why on earth do we bother to carefully collect religious demographic data when robin can just tell us that it's all meaningless. Robin is a nihilist. The book of Ecclesiastes is his Bible. Or didn't you know. Its a worldview and all are (in this democratic age) entitled to their worldview (or didn't you know)
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robinrohan Inactive Member |
Robin is a nihilist The point is that many will say they believe in God, when under duress, even if they don't. I would do that too.
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iano Member (Idle past 1940 days) Posts: 6165 From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland. Joined: |
I know. Even John A. Davison put "God bless you" on his 'elect-me-for-governor' manifesto.
Its hard to believe isn't it?
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deerbreh Member (Idle past 2892 days) Posts: 882 Joined: |
Now if that is the case then it there isn't as much diversity as you might think. Islam, Atheism, Hinduism, Roman Catholicism, Agnosticism. All the same side of the very same coin. All sharing the same features in essence: denial of God as is revealed You really don't know what you are talking about. It is hard to know where to begin with someone who would lump all of these different religions and philosophies together as one and the same. And you really do not understand agnostism at all. It is not a religion and neither is atheism.
Arrogant, exclusive and extreme? That is one logical possibility. The other is that it is true. And if it is true, it will sound very arrogant, exclusive and extreme. Sounding arrogant, exclusive and extreme is patently not a measure to be trusted in any objective sense. You left out one distinct possibility, that you are an uneducated person in philosophy and religion who does not know what you don't know.
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deerbreh Member (Idle past 2892 days) Posts: 882 Joined: |
"And whilst I occupy that postion" - my morals are relative - I eat, drink and be merry for die I know I shall" - my arguments will tend to oppose those of the "God exists" side. I will find I am, by and large, in agreement with mainline atheistic thinking. - I will (if secretly - for only an agnostic can answer this for themselves) suppose that if there is a God then "I'm not such a bad chap, God will understand" - from the above: reason is the way to truth. I will rely on myself (very atheistic-think) - everytime I come to mystery I will tend to suspend my question until a naturalistic solution comes along. Goddidit is athema to me I don;t know what you are describing but it is not agnosticism. It is your cartoon version of agnosticism.
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inkorrekt Member (Idle past 6081 days) Posts: 382 From: Westminster,CO, USA Joined: |
No, you can hear from God. God always speaks. But we have wax in our ears so that we selectively avoid God.
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RickJB Member (Idle past 4990 days) Posts: 917 From: London, UK Joined: |
iano writes: ...it is usually the believers who get the bumps on their head "I don't know" is a perfectly logical (albeit unexciting) position.... But I think the real divide between believers and non-believers often comes not with regard to the very existence of God, but to whether his will (whatever form of religion it may manifest as) should be taken into account if he does exist. Whether or not God exists, both atheists and agnostics reject any notions of submission to God. Even if God does exist, I see no reason to live my life as his subject in accordance with ideas attributed (by humans) to him.
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RickJB Member (Idle past 4990 days) Posts: 917 From: London, UK Joined: |
iano writes: Now if that is the case then it there isn't as much diversity as you might think. Islam, Atheism, Hinduism, Roman Catholicism, Agnosticism. All the same side of the very same coin. All sharing the same features in essence: denial of God as is revealed. Arrogant, exclusive and extreme? That is one logical possibility. The other is that it is true. Your two "logical possibilites" are not mutually exclusive - you tellingly chose to leave out the word "false"! Your assertion could be true. It could also be false.
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