Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 49 (9179 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: Jorge Parker
Post Volume: Total: 918,228 Year: 5,485/9,624 Month: 510/323 Week: 7/143 Day: 7/13 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   one more piece of evidence supporting macro-evolution
kuresu
Member (Idle past 2628 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 1 of 4 (297982)
03-25-2006 12:57 AM


I'm not sure when exactly, but it was after Columbus discovered the Caribeans, three european weed species were brought to America. I call them weeds, becasue that is what they are called, such as dandelions being weeds, although they do have a species name. At any rate, these three species of weed were endemic to Europe until we brought them over. Fast forward to the current day. There are now five species of that genus that the three belonged in. The original three are here in America and Europe, but the two new ones are only in America.
Evolution happens when a species is placed into a new environment. According to the Hardy-Weinberg equation, for evolution to not happen five conditions must be met. No differential migration is one of them. As the weeds were brought to America, they migrated. And yes, it still counts as migration even though it wasn't willing. The perfect example is of the finches blown off course by a storm and ending up at the Galapogos Islands. Faced with a new environment, certain traits proved to be favorable over others that hadn't been in Europe, or they were new mutations that only occurred in America that proved to be more favorable over the old traits. This/These trait/s then became the dominant one/s in the population. As they had reproductive isolation from Europe, Europe did not get those traits, and reproductive isolation happened here.
In the end, five where there were once three, and the two new ones are endemic to America.
This message has been edited by kuresu, 03-25-2006 01:05 AM

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Adminnemooseus, posted 03-25-2006 11:31 AM kuresu has not replied

Adminnemooseus
Inactive Administrator


Message 2 of 4 (298049)
03-25-2006 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by kuresu
03-25-2006 12:57 AM


Needs work
Offhand, this seems to be a fresh angle to the argument, at least here at .
As I see it, however, paragraph 1 is a rather vague anecdote.
1) I think we need to have the genus and species names for the "weeds" in question.
2) Some sort of relevant reference, preferably on-line, would be nice.
3) We need a more topic theme specific topic title. Something along the lines of "Imported weed diversification supports macro-evolution".
Also, I recomend dropping the Finches and Galapogos Islands from the second paragraph. Mentioning them is an invitation to sidetrack the topic.
Changes, including changing the topic title, can be made by editing message 1.
Other admins may have other suggestions.
Adminnemooseus
Added by edit: If and when you do edit message 1, please also post a new message to this topic indicating the edits were done. Otherwise the various admins might not notice such.
This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 03-25-2006 12:36 PM

New Members should start HERE to get an understanding of what makes great posts.
Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to:
General discussion of moderation procedures
Thread Reopen Requests
Considerations of topic promotions from the "Proposed New Topics" forum
Other useful links:
Forum Guidelines, Style Guides for EvC, Assistance w/ Forum Formatting, Proposed New (Great Debate) Topics, Official Invitations to Online Chat@EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by kuresu, posted 03-25-2006 12:57 AM kuresu has not replied

kuresu
Member (Idle past 2628 days)
Posts: 2544
From: boulder, colorado
Joined: 03-24-2006


Message 3 of 4 (298068)
03-25-2006 1:10 PM


Imported weed diversification supports macro-evolution
In the early 1900s, three plant species native to Europe were brought to america. These three belong to the goatsbeard genus, Tragopogon, and are T. dubius, T. pratensis, and T. porrifolius. These weeds are now common in urban wastelands. In the 1950s, botanists discovered something absolutely amazing. There were two new species in Idaho and eastern Washington. Keep in mind, the original three are also there. The new ones are T. miscellus and T. mirus.
Those familiar with the Hardy-Weinberg equation know that it states five conditions that must be met for no evolution to occur.
1) An infinately large population
2) No preferential mating
3) No differential migration
4) No mutation
5) No natural selection
The goatsbeard is not native to America, but to Europe. It migrated here, even though it had no choice (I don't think many migrations that lead to speciation are truly by choice). Also, the weeds did not migrate back to Europe. The weeds did not have an infinately large population. Because of being placed into a new environment, new pressures would be placed on the weeds. The two new species are also not found in Europe.
i don't know about you, but this looks an awful lot like speciation and macro-evolution.
Reference: Biology, Sixth Edition. Campbell and Reece (Authors). Published by Benjamin Cummings. Copyright 2002.
this has been edited from the original
This message has been edited by kuresu, 03-25-2006 01:12 PM

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Adminnemooseus, posted 03-25-2006 2:23 PM kuresu has not replied

Adminnemooseus
Inactive Administrator


Message 4 of 4 (298085)
03-25-2006 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by kuresu
03-25-2006 1:10 PM


Message 3 promoted to become new topic
New topic is Imported weed diversification supports macro-evolution
In the process of spinning-off message 3, I change the topic title and also tweeked the formatting a bit by inserting a few blank lines.
This PNT version is now closed.
Adminnemooseus

New Members should start HERE to get an understanding of what makes great posts.
Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to:
General discussion of moderation procedures
Thread Reopen Requests
Considerations of topic promotions from the "Proposed New Topics" forum
Other useful links:
Forum Guidelines, Style Guides for EvC, Assistance w/ Forum Formatting, Proposed New (Great Debate) Topics, Official Invitations to Online Chat@EvC

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by kuresu, posted 03-25-2006 1:10 PM kuresu has not replied

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024