Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,790 Year: 4,047/9,624 Month: 918/974 Week: 245/286 Day: 6/46 Hour: 1/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   If god has a plan, then doesn't that make prayer worthless?
StormWolfx2x
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 4 (196596)
04-04-2005 1:36 AM


What would be the point on praying for an outcome if god had already decided the outcome. Unless god does not have a plan, because if god is omnipotent, all powerful, and infallible, then truly his plan cannot be changed based on the desires of a mere mortal.
Logically then either
1. prayer does not effect the outcome of events, because if it did it would violate gods plan.
2. God does not have a plan, is omnipotent, all powerful, and infallible and as such can influence the outcome of events, and he chooses to do so based partially on prayer.
or
3. God has a plan and can effect outcomes, choosing to do so partially on prayer, but he is not omnipotent, all powerful, and infallible so his plan may be altered by the actions of mortals, and he counters this by answering prayers.
At least 1 of those statements MUST be true.
I already posted this as a reply but I think it would make a good topic as well.
{Added some blank lines. Did some capitalization at beginnings of sentences and periods at end of sentences. - Adminnemooseus}
This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 04-07-2005 02:59 AM

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by StormWolfx2x, posted 04-07-2005 3:21 AM StormWolfx2x has not replied
 Message 3 by Adminnemooseus, posted 04-07-2005 4:57 AM StormWolfx2x has not replied

StormWolfx2x
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 4 (197380)
04-07-2005 3:21 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by StormWolfx2x
04-04-2005 1:36 AM


Prayer is part of the plan
What would be the point on praying for an outcome if god had already decided the outcome. Unless god does not have a plan, because if god is omnipotent, all powerful, and infallible, then truly his plan cannot be changed based on the desires of a mere mortal.
Logically then either
1. prayer does not effect the outcome of events, because if it did it would violate gods plan.
But what if God foreknew that we would or would not pray? We became part of the outcome by our choice.
2. God does not have a plan, is omnipotent, all powerful, and infallible and as such can influence the outcome of events, and he chooses to do so based partially on prayer.
The purpose of life IS Gods plan. It is impossible for God to not have a plan.
or
3. God has a plan and can effect outcomes, choosing to do so partially on prayer, but he is not omnipotent, all powerful, and infallible so his plan may be altered by the actions of mortals, and he counters this by answering prayers.
At least 1 of those statements MUST be true.
I already posted this as a reply but I think it would make a good topic as well.
Check out this answer and this website:
Get Your Spiritual Questions Answered - Short Articles & Videos
EveryStudent.com writes:
Where we trip up is assuming we know God's will, because a certain thing makes sense to us! We assume that there is only one right "answer" to a specific prayer, assuming certainly THAT would be God's will. And this is where it gets tough. We live within the limits of time and limits of knowledge. We have only limited information about a situation and the implications of future action on that situation. God's understanding is unlimited. How an event plays out in the course of life or history is only something he knows. And he may have purposes far beyond what we could even imagine. So, God is not going to do something simply because we determine that it must be his will.
I will put you in Faith and Belief.
This message has been edited by AdminPhat, 04-07-2005 02:56 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by StormWolfx2x, posted 04-04-2005 1:36 AM StormWolfx2x has not replied

Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3976
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 3 of 4 (197383)
04-07-2005 4:57 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by StormWolfx2x
04-04-2005 1:36 AM


I think this may be one for AdminJar or AdminPhat to consider
I did some tweeking of the format of message 1.
As I see it, it is perfectly proper to bump a "Proposed New Topic", if it had gotten no admin response after a couple of day. Such is the case with yours.
I see no reason not to promote the topic, but I am going to defer action to one of the admins who is more up on the currently/recently active "Faith and Belief" topics. Perhaps it is best as you presented it in another topic, perhaps it deserves to be its own topic.
Adminnemooseus

New Members should start HERE to get an understanding of what makes great posts.
Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to:
General discussion of moderation procedures
Thread Reopen Requests
Considerations of topic promotions from the "Proposed New Topics" forum
Other useful links:
Forum Guidelines, Style Guides for EvC and Assistance w/ Forum Formatting

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by StormWolfx2x, posted 04-04-2005 1:36 AM StormWolfx2x has not replied

AdminPhat
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 4 (197390)
04-07-2005 5:56 AM


Thread copied to the If god has a plan, then doesn't that make prayer worthless? thread in the Faith and Belief forum, this copy of the thread has been closed.

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024