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Author Topic:   Escape From Reason
Chara
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 10 (26570)
12-14-2002 5:25 AM


John, I had noted in another thread that you had studied philosophy at one point. I was wondering if you were familiar with the book entitled, "Escape From Reason" by Francis Schaeffer?
Has anyone else here read it?

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by John, posted 12-14-2002 2:17 PM Chara has replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 10 (26588)
12-14-2002 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Chara
12-14-2002 5:25 AM


quote:
Originally posted by Chara:
John, I had noted in another thread that you had studied philosophy at one point. I was wondering if you were familiar with the book entitled, "Escape From Reason" by Francis Schaeffer?
Has anyone else here read it?

No. I haven't read it. I'll check into it though. Is there something particular that caught your attention?
------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Chara, posted 12-14-2002 5:25 AM Chara has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Chara, posted 12-14-2002 2:38 PM John has replied

  
Chara
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 10 (26589)
12-14-2002 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by John
12-14-2002 2:17 PM


^^^
It may all be "old news" to you, but I found the whole book quite fascinating. I just finished reading it for the second time and probably should read it again before I claim that I have a handle on all that he said. This is sort of my first foray into philosophy as such and this was a good primer. Would love to discuss it with you. Its a small book, only about 90 pages.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by John, posted 12-14-2002 2:17 PM John has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by John, posted 12-14-2002 3:06 PM Chara has replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 10 (26594)
12-14-2002 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Chara
12-14-2002 2:38 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Chara:
^^^
It may all be "old news" to you, but I found the whole book quite fascinating. I just finished reading it for the second time and probably should read it again before I claim that I have a handle on all that he said. This is sort of my first foray into philosophy as such and this was a good primer. Would love to discuss it with you. Its a small book, only about 90 pages.

Well, I don't have the book, so it is hard to say much. What I have found on the web leads me to believe that he was an especially insightful apologist but not more. I can always change my mind though. If you have something specific, please post it. I'd be happy to talk.
------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Chara, posted 12-14-2002 2:38 PM Chara has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Chara, posted 12-14-2002 3:47 PM John has replied

  
Chara
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 10 (26602)
12-14-2002 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by John
12-14-2002 3:06 PM


^^^^
I am sure that the book is readily available in the library. I did look to see if there was an online copy of it, but I think its still being published. I'm not trying to trick you into reading in the hopes that it will "magically" change your mind about anything.
The book actually put down in words what I was seeing in the posts on this board. It is not so much a book on apologetics (at least in my mind), but an analysis of the history of philosophy.
I know that you've given a lot of thought and time to this pursuit (at least I think you have) and I personally think it would be interesting to discuss this book with someone who has opposing views, rather than someone who is like-minded. I can try and summarize the book, but I don't know if I would do it justice.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by John, posted 12-14-2002 3:06 PM John has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Percy, posted 12-14-2002 4:30 PM Chara has not replied
 Message 7 by John, posted 12-14-2002 4:57 PM Chara has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22689
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 6 of 10 (26605)
12-14-2002 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Chara
12-14-2002 3:47 PM


Hey, John, neither of my libraries has this book, but this comment from Chara may be accurate:
chara writes:
It is not so much a book on apologetics (at least in my mind), but an analysis of the history of philosophy.
If you look at the reviews of this book at Amazon, it sounds not so much like Christian apologetics as a review of western philosophy from an evangelical perspective.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Chara, posted 12-14-2002 3:47 PM Chara has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by John, posted 12-14-2002 5:07 PM Percy has not replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 10 (26607)
12-14-2002 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Chara
12-14-2002 3:47 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Chara:
I am sure that the book is readily available in the library.
Yeah, but see, I am practicing to become a hermit.
quote:
I'm not trying to trick you into reading in the hopes that it will "magically" change your mind about anything.
I didn't think you were trying to trick me. Besides, trick or no, I'm not afraid of opinions.
quote:
I can try and summarize the book, but I don't know if I would do it justice.
Can you summarize just one portion of it? Some main idea?
------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Chara, posted 12-14-2002 3:47 PM Chara has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Chara, posted 12-14-2002 11:06 PM John has not replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 10 (26609)
12-14-2002 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Percy
12-14-2002 4:30 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Percipient:
Hey, John, neither of my libraries has this book, but this comment from Chara may be accurate:
chara writes:
It is not so much a book on apologetics (at least in my mind), but an analysis of the history of philosophy.

I was talking about the man in general, not this book specifically. There are quite a few sites out there with him as the star player.
Even so, I read the twelve sample pages displayed at Amazon ( When I looked up the author I skipped the listings at Amazon, forgetting that sometimes they display sample pages ) and I didn't see anything striking. I am very interested in what chara found interesting though.
------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Percy, posted 12-14-2002 4:30 PM Percy has not replied

  
Chara
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 10 (26626)
12-14-2002 11:06 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by John
12-14-2002 4:57 PM


quote:
Originally posted by John:
Can you summarize just one portion of it? Some main idea?

I don't know if that works well with this book as it is almost an essay rather than a series of chapters or ideas. I will try to do the book justice a bit at a time ...
[This message has been edited by Chara, 12-17-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by John, posted 12-14-2002 4:57 PM John has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Chara, posted 12-17-2002 1:50 AM Chara has not replied

  
Chara
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 10 (26936)
12-17-2002 1:50 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Chara
12-14-2002 11:06 PM


The first installment I know that many here will not agree with what the Reformationists understood but I ask that at least for the time being that those participating in this conversation would refrain from criticizing those ideas. For now, I am recapping or rather attempting to recap what Schaeffer has stated, and although we may not agree with the philosophies, what I am interested in is a discussion of Shaeffer's interpretation of the history of philosophy.


Thomas Aquinas, (1225 - 1274) philosopher, theologian, began a new way of thinking in which man's intellect was not fallen even though his will was. This thought opened the door to the idea that man's intellect was autonomous. Philosophy consisted of:
  1. rationalism - beginning from oneself, gathering information concerning the particulars, formulating the universals (general or abstract concepts or terms considered absolute or axiomatic)
  2. rational - a form of thinking in which A = non A (antithesis)
  3. the desire to construct a unified field of knowledge
This philosophy stands in contrast to the Reformation's way of thinking about man. They understood that the Fall of man was total and that only God was autonomous. Final and sufficient knowledge rested in the Bible and salvation was of God alone. The Scriptures give the key to the knowledge of God and to the knowledge of men - not an exhaustive knowledge, but a true and unified knowledge.
Man knows his origin and who he is (created in the image of God). In a space-time point of history man fell and stands morally guilty before God but NOT nothing. Christ died for a man who had true moral guilt because he had made a real and true choice.
Because Christianity believes in a reasonable God and that this God created the universe - two things are true. One, we can find out about this universe. Two, we have an objective reality in which something exists, history exists, and cause and effect exists. These truths inspired man to discover and investigate the real, natural world.

This is, I hope accurately portrayed, the basis from which Schaeffer starts his history.
[This message has been edited by Chara, 12-17-2002]
[This message has been edited by Chara, 12-17-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Chara, posted 12-14-2002 11:06 PM Chara has not replied

  
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