State Execution in the USA

Alabama will kill Keneth Smith today using nitrogen, after previously trying and failing (for four hours) to kill him using lethal injection. They couldn't find a vein. Dear God.This is the first use of nitrogen to deliberately kill by any state anywhere and is being called torture by objectors.I'm surprising myself by being angry, ashamed and upset even from this distance - a modern democratic country is murdering its own citizens and in such a half-arsed way. At least in those other parts of the world where the death penalty is used - which happen to be countries none of us would choose to live in - you can expect it to be quick and effective.Supported by Christians - wtf???

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roughly 75% of white Evangelicals and Protestants favor capital punishment,

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Just a moment...

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.I thought there might be an edit to the OP coming, but given that Mr. Smith has been executed I decided to promote this now.

Was going to post this yesterday, but the topic hadn't been promoted yet.My initial reaction was, "How is asphyxiation, by any means, not cruel, unusual and inhumane?"But looking into it, it is brain's detection of the buildup of carbon dioxide that causes the irresistible urge to breath. We've all experienced this when holding our breath.But there is no carbon dioxide buildup as long as we continue to inhale and exhale, and the brain has no mechanism for detecting a lack of oxygen, so there are no signals that the air you're breathing has insufficient oxygen. Canaries were used in mines to detect bad air because they are more sensitive to the lack of oxygen than humans and would pass out first. So if miners could be rendered unconscious by bad air without being aware anything was amiss, the same should be true for an execution.But that's just me fact checking stuff. I don't believe this means of execution (or any means, for that matter) have been sufficiently researched to prove that they are not inhumane.--Percy

The state of Alabama has executed Kenneth Eugene Smith by means of nitrogen gas. According to the article, Mr. Smith did not just peacefully become unconscious as had been claimed:

The Independent:

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His religious adviser Reverend Jeff Hood, who witnessed the execution, told reporters what he saw was a man “struggling for their life” for a staggering 22 minutes.

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Alabama authorities insist the execution went to plan, despite predicting the untested method would lead to unconsciousness within seconds and death in minutes.

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But, witnesses said Smith appeared conscious for several minutes, shaking and writhing on the gurney.

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“We didn’t see somebody go unconscious in 30 seconds,” said Rev Hood. “What we saw was minutes of someone struggling for their life.”

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Smith’s death came after the US Supreme Court denied a final, 11th-hour bid to stay of execution. The ruling received dissent from Justice Sonia Sotomayor who wrote that the state had selected Smith as a “guinea pig” by using the untested method.

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According to other articles I've read, the burden is on the executionee to prove a method inhumane, not on state authorities to prove it humane. They could sentence someone to burning at the stake and it would happen unless the victim appeals that it is inhumane. This seems completely backward.--Percy

The death sentence is cruel punishment on its face, though in this species it is not an unusual one. The reports from Alabama are politically motivated on both sides.Unfortunately, they do not sedate the prisoner being executed. The state requires he be conscious and aware of his execution. So, I can imagine him strapped onto the gurney in the throes of the deepest darkest existential angst a human mind can suffer. I’d be twitching like a hooked fish. Given the political overtones of the event I can excuse opponents labeling every twitch as extreme pain from breathing nitrogen. I discount the reported interpretations of excessive physical pain as more likely extreme mental anguish. Remember, this was not his first look at the reaper. His previous execution by injection was postponed on the gurney during the needle stick.What most interests me in this whole thing is the method of death. A truly easy and painless suicide? The physiology appears so. A few sleeping pills to put you out then put on the mask and breath easy. Well, as easy as one can considering what you’re contemplating ... until the pills kick in.The Swiss may be onto something.Sarco pod - Wikipedia
'Suicide pod' prototype invented as alternative to assisted deathAlso, unfortunately, I can see this new way to kill becoming the national favorite for executions quite soon.

I couldn't find this requirement at Ala. Code § 15-18-82 or Ala. Code § 15-18-82.1, but maybe it's in another part of the code? Much of these parts of the code are concerned with constitutionality. Or maybe it's a federal requirement? If the executionee being conscious and aware is the law then that seems, in and of itself, cruel.In the Alabama case, because the prisoner is unconscious at the moment of death, the moment of actual execution, which with nitrogen hypoxia apparently occurs about 20 minutes after the air supply is changed to nitrogen, I think this might not fulfill a requirement of consciousness and awareness.--Percy

I've been a bit quiet waiting to see what people might say. To be frank I'm surprised that the focus has been entirely on the method and not on whether you guys should really be murdering your own citizens with malice and forethought in any way at all.

The problem involves the fact that we Americans kill people legally and as many of us stand up and scream about it there aren’t enough to change the laws. Why? I smell religion.As for the method ... very interesting. I happen to be a big believer in a person's right to off themselves. This nitrogen method looks ... imaginable.

The US government and state governments are secular. However, as often is the case around here Christianity becomes the scapegoat.I'm a Christian and am absolutely opposed to the death penalty. I agree that there are those who don't deserve to live, but the death penalty is bad for society, and bad for the executioners.

The government is secular. The voters are not.Just a moment...(Strange journal title. No wait. This is the Death Penalty Information Center reporting on a Pew Research Center survey from April 2021)

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Approximately two-thirds of atheists and six-in-ten agnostics are at least ‘somewhat’ opposed to the use of capital punishment for those convicted of murder, while 60% of U.S. adults favors the death penalty. For particular religious groups, this support is even higher: roughly 75% of white Evangelicals and Protestants favor capital punishment, as well as 61% of Hispanic Catholics. For Black Protestants, capital punishment is a divisive issue, with 50% supporting its use and 47% opposing its use.

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I'd say this represents a major share of the voting population. As usual religion, specifically christianity, leads the death cult.

Hi Paul, If the life of a person is removed by a person why should that person not need to pay for that life with their own?Evolution would not support such a view. If you believe it would just go out in the woods with a gun and one bullet and kill a bear's cub and see what happens. That bear will maul you to pieces until your life is gone.God Bless,

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If the life of a person is removed by a person why should that person not need to pay for that life with their own?

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That depends on what your goals for society are, and how specifically you value human life. Whether you care about recidivism, or redemption, or forgiveness. Whether you care about giving the State the power to kill its citizens. Whether you care about the mental and emotional health of the people you ask to perform the executions. How certain you are that the convicted person really did the thing they are accused of, bearing in mind that there are many many cases we know of where a person was executed and later proven to be innocent. There are lots of considerations, beyond even those I've mentioned.

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Evolution would not support such a view.

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Evolution is not a set of moral principles, ICANT. It's a scientific theory that explains the diversity of life. There are no "ten commandments of evolution." This is like saying "The theory of gravity does not support the view that Mustangs are better muscle cars than Challengers." It's just pure non-sequitur.

That could be because of several reasons.

Believers do not fear death and do not consider it our sacred responsibility to preserve the life of the condemned. (And why should society collectively pay to guarantee them life without parole? Does anyone know how much that costs? Why should society pay to keep them alive?

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Yes I know Im heartless. jesus should be ashamed of me, according to the bleeding hearts.

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Lets keep each and every human alive...forever if possible. Damn the cost,

Why are we suddenly worried about the power to kill when so many deadly wars are part of our daily news? In the rare cases where the death penelty is suggested, its not a big deal to collectively snuff out a life. The issue boils down to the humaneness and the method. Not the stupid ethics of a society ill equipped to judge itself.

If your catechism were true then you just told your master you don't believe him and will not follow in his wake.