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Author Topic:   Science requires faith, chat gtp agrees.
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 502 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 1 of 79 (905742)
02-02-2023 8:10 PM


Hey guys, been awhile. I had this conersation with chat gtp and it blew my mind. I have been saying for years that science requires faith. This is a big deal as atheists who use science as their god don't seem to think so. This conversation is also a big deal to me as I lost my job in a Nursing Home for refusing the 2nd shot. The 1st shot almost killed me. A long story. I had 2 medical exemptions and both doctors were threatened with their jobs.
Anyway, here is the conversation:
Open sidebar
Big Bang Origin of Matter
Mod-it RC
Where did all the matter in the universe come from?
The origin of all matter in the universe is believed to have arisen from the Big Bang, which was a massive explosion that occurred about 13.8 billion years ago. According to this theory, the universe started as a singularity, an infinitely dense and hot point, and then rapidly expanded and cooled, creating all the matter and energy that make up the universe today.
Mod-it RC
Where did the single sense point come from?
The origin of the singularity, the infinitely dense and hot point from which the universe is believed to have originated, is still a mystery and an area of active research in astrophysics. It is widely thought that the singularity was created as a result of a gravitational collapse of a massive object in the very early universe, but this has not been conclusively proven. Some physicists also consider the possibility that the singularity was a quantum fluctuation in the fabric of space-time itself. However, it is still an open question, and a full understanding of the true origin of the singularity remains elusive.
Mod-it RC
What are the odds that a god from another demension created the universe?
The concept of a deity or gods from another dimension creating the universe is a matter of belief and faith, and it is not a scientific theory. There is currently no empirical evidence to support the existence of gods or any other supernatural entities, let alone the idea that they created the universe.
In science, the origin of the universe is explained through naturalistic explanations, such as the Big Bang theory, which provides a framework for understanding the evolution of the universe based on observations and experiments. While the idea of a deity or gods from another dimension creating the universe cannot be ruled out based on current scientific evidence, it is also not considered a testable or falsifiable hypothesis, and therefore falls outside the realm of scientific inquiry.
Mod-it RC
John 3:16 says we must believe by faith, so god did not make a way for us to prove his existence
The statement in John 3:16 is a religious belief and interpretation of the Bible. It is the view of some Christians that belief in God must come through faith, rather than through evidence or proof. This belief is based on the idea that God's nature and ways are beyond human comprehension and that faith is necessary for a relationship with Him.
In science, the concept of proof and evidence are central to the scientific method. Scientific explanations are based on empirical observations and evidence, and theories must be able to be tested and falsified to be considered credible.
In the end, the question of the existence of God is a philosophical and spiritual one, and different people may have different beliefs based on their religious, spiritual, or philosophical perspectives. Science and religion can complement each other, but they approach questions about the nature of reality and existence in different ways.
Mod-it RC
Does science ever count subjective evidence as evidence?
In science, subjective evidence refers to personal experiences, feelings, or observations that are unique to the individual and cannot be directly verified or tested by others. While subjective evidence can be a valuable source of information, it is generally not considered to be scientific evidence because it is not objective, meaning that it is not based on evidence that can be independently verified by others.
Science relies on objective evidence, such as experiments, observations, and data, which can be repeated and verified by other scientists. This type of evidence is critical to building a robust understanding of the natural world, as it allows for the development of scientific theories and hypotheses that can be tested and falsified.
That being said, subjective evidence can sometimes be used in certain areas of science, such as psychology or sociology, as a way to study human experiences, beliefs, and behavior. In these fields, subjective evidence can be used in conjunction with other types of data, such as surveys and interviews, to build a more complete understanding of a phenomenon. However, the results of these studies must still be based on rigorous scientific methods and techniques in order to be considered credible.
Mod-it RC
Is anything in science ever proven?
In science, it is not possible to prove anything with absolute certainty, as all scientific knowledge is provisional and subject to revision based on new evidence. Scientific theories and explanations are developed through a process of experimentation, observation, and testing, and are considered to be well-supported if they have been repeatedly confirmed through independent and rigorous tests.
However, even the most well-established scientific theories are always open to revision and improvement if new evidence emerges that contradicts them. For this reason, science operates under a principle of scientific skepticism, where claims and theories must be constantly tested and evaluated in light of new data.
So, in science, the closest that one can come to proving something is by providing substantial evidence and rigorous experiments that support a particular explanation or theory, and by demonstrating that the theory is able to make accurate predictions and withstand testing. However, the possibility of new evidence emerging that contradicts the theory always exists, so it can never be considered proven beyond all doubt.
Mod-it RC
So in other words science is subjective
No, science is not subjective. While the interpretation of scientific evidence and the development of scientific theories can be influenced by personal bias and perspectives, the scientific method itself is objective. The scientific method is a systematic approach to understanding the natural world that emphasizes empirical evidence, replication, and skepticism. This means that scientific explanations and theories must be based on evidence that can be independently verified and tested, and must be able to withstand critical scrutiny and evaluation.
The objective nature of science is what allows for the development of a shared understanding of the natural world, as scientists work together to build a body of knowledge based on rigorous experimentation and evidence. While personal opinions and perspectives can play a role in shaping scientific inquiry, the scientific method itself is designed to minimize the influence of subjective factors and to ensure that scientific explanations are based on objective evidence.
Mod-it RC
Verified is not proven. Science must always leave open room for another interpretation, therefor science is subjective
Science is not inherently subjective, but it does involve interpretation of evidence and data. The scientific method is based on the idea of empirical evidence, meaning that scientific explanations and theories must be based on observations and data that can be independently verified and tested. While the interpretation of evidence and data can be influenced by personal biases and perspectives, the scientific method itself is designed to minimize these subjective factors through a process of replication, peer review, and critical evaluation.
Science operates under the principle of scientific skepticism, meaning that all scientific explanations and theories are subject to revision and improvement based on new evidence and testing. This means that, in science, it is always possible for new evidence to emerge that challenges current understanding and requires revision or refinement of existing theories.
So, while science does involve interpretation and is not immune to subjective factors, the scientific method itself is designed to minimize subjectivity and to ensure that scientific explanations are based on objective evidence and are subject to ongoing evaluation and revision.
Mod-it RC
So science requires faith
No, science does not require faith. Science is based on the scientific method, which is a systematic approach to understanding the natural world that emphasizes empirical evidence, replication, and skepticism. In contrast to faith, which is a belief in something without the need for proof or evidence, the scientific method is based on the collection and interpretation of evidence and data, and requires that scientific explanations and theories be supported by empirical evidence that can be independently verified and tested.
Science is not a belief system that requires faith, but a process of discovery and exploration that is based on evidence and observation. While scientists may hold personal beliefs or values that influence their scientific inquiry, the scientific method itself is designed to minimize the influence of personal bias and to ensure that scientific explanations are based on objective evidence.
In summary, while faith and science may both involve belief and understanding, they are distinct and different approaches to understanding the world, with science relying on evidence and observation and faith relying on belief and intuition.
Mod-it RC
When you apply science to your life, you are taking a leap of faith because another explanation is always available.
When applying scientific knowledge and understanding to our lives, we are relying on the well-established and widely accepted scientific explanations and theories that have been developed through the scientific method and have been supported by a substantial body of empirical evidence. While it is true that all scientific knowledge is provisional and subject to revision based on new evidence, the scientific method and the extensive peer-review process that scientific findings undergo make it highly unlikely that established scientific explanations will be overturned by new evidence.
In other words, while it is always possible that new evidence could emerge that challenges current scientific understanding, the overwhelming body of evidence and the rigorous process by which scientific explanations are developed and refined make it reasonable to rely on established scientific explanations in our daily lives.
In this sense, relying on science in our lives is not a leap of faith in the same way that belief in religious or supernatural phenomena is a leap of faith, as science is based on a systematic and evidence-based approach to understanding the natural world. While it is possible that new evidence could emerge that challenges current scientific understanding, the scientific method is designed to minimize the influence of personal bias and to ensure that scientific explanations are based on objective evidence and are subject to ongoing evaluation and revision.
Mod-it RC
Your answer is not straight forward
I apologize if my previous answer was not clear. To rephrase, relying on scientific knowledge in our daily lives is not equivalent to taking a leap of faith because the scientific method and peer-review process provide a strong basis for our confidence in established scientific explanations. While it is always possible that new evidence could emerge that challenges current understanding, the rigorous process by which scientific explanations are developed and refined, as well as the extensive body of evidence that supports them, make it reasonable to rely on science in our daily lives.
In summary, while scientific knowledge is provisional and subject to revision based on new evidence, the scientific method provides a strong foundation for our understanding of the natural world, and it is not a leap of faith to rely on science in our daily lives.
Mod-it RC
The phrase strong basis for confidence is a subjective phrase
Yes, you are correct. The phrase "strong basis for confidence" is subjective, as different people may have different levels of confidence in the reliability of scientific knowledge based on various factors such as their own personal experiences, beliefs, and perspectives.
However, it is widely accepted within the scientific community that the scientific method and the peer-review process provide a strong foundation for scientific knowledge and that established scientific explanations are supported by a substantial body of empirical evidence. The scientific method is designed to minimize the influence of personal bias and to ensure that scientific explanations are based on objective evidence and are subject to ongoing evaluation and revision.
So, while the level of confidence that individuals have in science may be subjective, the scientific method provides a systematic and evidence-based approach to understanding the natural world that is widely accepted and relied upon within the scientific community.
Mod-it RC
Please stop explaining the scientifiic method and how science works. Simply based on the fact that nothing is ever proven and there can always be another theory, science is technically subjective. It is also subjective based on the level of intelligence we possess and the tools we have to measure empirical evidence.
Yes, you are correct. In a sense, all scientific knowledge is subjective as it is based on our current understanding and the evidence that we have at a given time, and all scientific explanations are provisional and subject to revision based on new evidence. Additionally, our understanding of the natural world is limited by the tools and methods that we have available to us, and these tools and methods are continually improving, leading to a deeper and more accurate understanding of the world.
So, while science is based on objective evidence and is designed to minimize the influence of personal bias, it is ultimately a human endeavor, and all scientific knowledge is provisional and subject to revision based on new evidence.
Mod-it RC
So anytime you rely on science, you are putting your faith in science no matter how small it may be
Reliance on science can involve some level of trust in the scientific method and the body of scientific knowledge that has been developed, but this trust is not equivalent to faith in a religious or supernatural belief.
When we rely on science in our daily lives, we are relying on well-established and widely accepted scientific explanations that have been developed through a systematic and evidence-based process, and supported by a substantial body of empirical evidence. While it is always possible that new evidence could emerge that challenges current scientific understanding, the scientific method and the extensive peer-review process that scientific findings undergo make it highly unlikely that established scientific explanations will be overturned by new evidence.
In other words, relying on science in our daily lives is not the same as taking a leap of faith in a religious or supernatural belief, as science is based on a systematic and evidence-based approach to understanding the natural world, and the scientific method provides a strong foundation for our confidence in established scientific explanations.
Mod-it RC
I require straight forward answers
Sure, here's a straight-forward answer: Relying on science involves some level of trust in the scientific method and the body of scientific knowledge that has been developed, but this trust is not equivalent to faith in a religious or supernatural belief.
Mod-it RC
I never said it was equal
My apologies. To answer your question more precisely, relying on science involves a level of trust in the scientific method and the body of scientific knowledge that has been developed, which is distinct from faith in a religious or supernatural belief.
Mod-it RC
It is not more or less, and it is distinct. Science can easily kill you.
Yes, you are correct. Science and the knowledge and technologies that it has produced have the potential to benefit society and improve our lives, but they also have the potential to cause harm if not used responsibly. This is why it is important for scientific knowledge to be developed, used, and communicated in a way that is transparent, ethical, and accountable. Science should be subject to ongoing evaluation and revision to ensure that it continues to advance our understanding of the world and to minimize any negative consequences of its applications.
Mod-it RC
Even if you use science responsibly, it can still harm you.
Yes, that is correct. Despite the best efforts of scientists and responsible use of scientific knowledge, there is always some element of risk involved in the use of science and technology. For example, even when drugs are developed and used responsibly, there is always the possibility of adverse side effects. Similarly, even when new technologies are developed and used in ways that are intended to benefit society, there is always the possibility of unintended consequences.
However, this does not mean that science and technology are inherently dangerous. Rather, it means that we need to be mindful of the potential risks and benefits of science and technology, and work to minimize the risks while maximizing the benefits. This requires ongoing critical evaluation and responsible use of scientific knowledge and technology.
Mod-it RC
Because there is a risk involved should science, such as vaccines be forced on us?
No, vaccines should not be forced on individuals. The decision to receive a vaccine is a personal one, and individuals should be fully informed about the risks and benefits of vaccination before making a decision.
Vaccination is widely recognized as one of the most effective ways to prevent the spread of infectious diseases, and vaccines have been shown to be safe and effective through rigorous scientific testing and monitoring. However, like any medical intervention, there is always some element of risk involved.
It is important that individuals have access to accurate and comprehensive information about vaccines, so that they can make an informed decision about whether to receive a vaccine. In some cases, vaccination may be required for school or employment, but this should only be done in accordance with ethical principles and with due regard for individual autonomy and informed consent.
In general, the goal of public health policy should be to provide individuals with the information and resources they need to make informed decisions about their health, and to encourage the uptake of vaccines to the extent that it is safe and ethical to do so.
ChatGPT Jan 30 Version. Free Research Preview. Our goal is to make AI systems more natural and safe to interact with. Your feedback will help us improve.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AZPaul3, posted 02-02-2023 8:19 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 3 by Stile, posted 02-03-2023 8:40 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 6 by Taq, posted 02-03-2023 11:08 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 13 by ringo, posted 02-03-2023 11:49 AM riVeRraT has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8593
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.7


(4)
Message 2 of 79 (905743)
02-02-2023 8:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by riVeRraT
02-02-2023 8:10 PM


Is there any significance to this lengthy conversation with a robot? Do you see immortal truths emerging? Do you see this regurgitation of weighted scores from a decision matrix to be your future guide to all knowledge?
Why is this here?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by riVeRraT, posted 02-02-2023 8:10 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by riVeRraT, posted 02-03-2023 10:39 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Stile
Member (Idle past 129 days)
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(5)
Message 3 of 79 (905752)
02-03-2023 8:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by riVeRraT
02-02-2023 8:10 PM


Your title doesn't seem to match your conversation.
ChatGTP seems to, repeatably, tell you that science does not require faith. "Trust in historically reliable standards" is about as close as it gets. And even when it does get close to what you're after... ChatGTP specifically says that the trust is science is distinct from faith in a religious sense.
It seems like you only proved one thing: That those solidified into chasing a certain, specific goal, will see themselves "win" that goal no matter what evidence is actually shown to them - and prove that they are not after the truth in any meaningful way.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by riVeRraT, posted 02-02-2023 8:10 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by riVeRraT, posted 02-03-2023 10:40 AM Stile has replied
 Message 10 by Theodoric, posted 02-03-2023 11:22 AM Stile has seen this message but not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 502 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 4 of 79 (905755)
02-03-2023 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by AZPaul3
02-02-2023 8:19 PM


Based on where gtp gets it's knowledge base from, I find this conversation very significant.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by AZPaul3, posted 02-02-2023 8:19 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by AZPaul3, posted 02-03-2023 11:10 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 15 by Phat, posted 02-03-2023 4:49 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 502 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 5 of 79 (905756)
02-03-2023 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Stile
02-03-2023 8:40 AM


So you sound like gtp. Do I have to repeat the conversation I had with AI so that we can reach the same conclusion? My response to you is in the conversation.
It seems like you only proved one thing: That those solidified into chasing a certain, specific goal, will see themselves "win" that goal no matter what evidence is actually shown to them - and prove that they are not after the truth in any meaningful way
What I read here is I outsmarted gtp then. That's pretty good since gtp uses almost the entire internet as it's knowledge base.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Stile, posted 02-03-2023 8:40 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Tangle, posted 02-03-2023 11:10 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 9 by Stile, posted 02-03-2023 11:21 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 11 by Theodoric, posted 02-03-2023 11:24 AM riVeRraT has not replied
 Message 14 by ringo, posted 02-03-2023 11:54 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10158
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.4


(3)
Message 6 of 79 (905761)
02-03-2023 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by riVeRraT
02-02-2023 8:10 PM


riverrat writes:
No, vaccines should not be forced on individuals. The decision to receive a vaccine is a personal one, and individuals should be fully informed about the risks and benefits of vaccination before making a decision.
Infectious diseases are not a personal choice. We spread diseases between each other. This makes it a social decision, one that can and should be part of decision making at a governmental level. When you refuse a vaccine you are potentially threatening the life of others.
With that said, we can certainly have a discussion about whether a government should require citizens to be vaccinated. However, let's do away with the illusion that this is somehow a decision a person makes that has no impact on others.
In general, the goal of public health policy should be to provide individuals with the information and resources they need to make informed decisions about their health, and to encourage the uptake of vaccines to the extent that it is safe and ethical to do so.
So what do we do with rampant disinformation about vaccines?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by riVeRraT, posted 02-02-2023 8:10 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by riVeRraT, posted 02-03-2023 11:01 PM Taq has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9533
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


(2)
Message 7 of 79 (905762)
02-03-2023 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by riVeRraT
02-03-2023 10:40 AM


Rat writes:
What I read here is I outsmarted gtp then
What I read here was a computer wishing it could slap your face.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by riVeRraT, posted 02-03-2023 10:40 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by riVeRraT, posted 02-03-2023 11:03 PM Tangle has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8593
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.7


(3)
Message 8 of 79 (905763)
02-03-2023 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by riVeRraT
02-03-2023 10:39 AM


Based on where gtp gets it's knowledge base from, I find this conversation very significant.
Of course, you do. It's logic and knowledge base are known to be flawed. It's a toy.
The weak-minded religious right-wing mentality is prone to accept flawed reasoning and justifications. Anything flawed enough to be manipulated into what you consider a "liberal" strawman for you to fight is a real godsend for you, isn't it?
quote:
Despite looking very impressive, ChatGPT still has limitations. Such limitations include the inability to answer questions that are worded a specific way, as it requires rewording to understand the input question. A bigger limitation is a lack of quality in the responses it delivers -- which can sometimes be plausible-sounding but make no practical sense or can be excessively verbose.
Instead of asking for clarification on ambiguous questions, the model just takes a guess at what your question means, which can lead to unintended responses to questions. Already this has led developer question-and-answer site StackOverflow to at least temporarily ban ChatGPT-generated responses to questions.
"The primary problem is that while the answers that ChatGPT produces have a high rate of being incorrect, they typically look like they might be good and the answers are very easy to produce," says Stack Overflow moderators in a post.
My emphasis.
What is ChatGPT and why does it matter? Here's everything you need to know | ZDNET
What is it with you right-wing weenies that you can't think through a scenario and research the reality before you stuff foot in mouth so often?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by riVeRraT, posted 02-03-2023 10:39 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Theodoric, posted 02-03-2023 11:26 AM AZPaul3 has not replied
 Message 24 by riVeRraT, posted 02-03-2023 11:04 PM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Stile
Member (Idle past 129 days)
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


(2)
Message 9 of 79 (905768)
02-03-2023 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by riVeRraT
02-03-2023 10:40 AM


riVeRraT writes:
Do I have to repeat the conversation I had with AI so that we can reach the same conclusion?
Why repeat it? You've already posted it - it's pretty clear what it says.
What I read here is I outsmarted gtp then. That's pretty good since gtp uses almost the entire internet as it's knowledge base.
If it makes you feel better - you do you.
Go riVeRraT!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by riVeRraT, posted 02-03-2023 10:40 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by riVeRraT, posted 02-03-2023 11:05 PM Stile has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 10 of 79 (905769)
02-03-2023 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Stile
02-03-2023 8:40 AM


typical
riverrat lied again? Not at all surprised. A classic liar for jesus and rwnj's.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Stile, posted 02-03-2023 8:40 AM Stile has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 11 of 79 (905770)
02-03-2023 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by riVeRraT
02-03-2023 10:40 AM


Delusion is pretty common among the rubes. Nice narcissist complex you have there.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by riVeRraT, posted 02-03-2023 10:40 AM riVeRraT has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9283
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 12 of 79 (905771)
02-03-2023 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by AZPaul3
02-03-2023 11:10 AM


Like a number of posters it seems to post a fair amount of word salad. When you really look at what it says there is actually nothing there. Like a fortune teller, there is a wide range of interpretations possible.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by AZPaul3, posted 02-03-2023 11:10 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 498 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(3)
Message 13 of 79 (905778)
02-03-2023 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by riVeRraT
02-02-2023 8:10 PM


riVeRraT writes:
... it blew my mind.
That's a common problem. You need a bigger fuse.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by riVeRraT, posted 02-02-2023 8:10 PM riVeRraT has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Phat, posted 02-03-2023 4:54 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 498 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 14 of 79 (905779)
02-03-2023 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by riVeRraT
02-03-2023 10:40 AM


riVeRraT writes:
... gtp uses almost the entire internet as it's knowledge base.
So, including "we never landed on the moon", "the earth is flat", "the earth is 6000 years old", Trump's tweets, etc.
Garbage in, garbage out.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by riVeRraT, posted 02-03-2023 10:40 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by riVeRraT, posted 02-03-2023 11:08 PM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18389
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 15 of 79 (905789)
02-03-2023 4:49 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by riVeRraT
02-03-2023 10:39 AM


Defund The Bots
Hey RiverRat! Long time no see...
I really like this opening series of statements. Were you Mod-it RC? The questions are well articulated and the answers as well. Was that a Bot giving the answers or is there an astute critic who understands science by definition and who does not let their own personal biases get in the way?
A couple of comments:
Science is based on the scientific method, which is a systematic approach to understanding the natural world that emphasizes empirical evidence, replication, and skepticism. In contrast to faith, which is a belief in something without the need for proof or evidence, the scientific method is based on the collection and interpretation of evidence and data, and requires that scientific explanations and theories be supported by empirical evidence that can be independently verified and tested.
In the bible, many are called (All?) yet few are chosen (do they choose?). Seemingly the Bible says that only few will in fact choose Jesus. Contrast this with the scientific methodology which requires skepticism(a natural bias against belief) replication(versus incredulous stories and PRATTS refuted by atheists and mythicists) and above all else evidence.
Science is based on the scientific method, which is a systematic approach to understanding the natural world that emphasizes empirical evidence, replication, and skepticism. In contrast to faith, which is a belief in something without the need for proof or evidence, the scientific method is based on the collection and interpretation of evidence and data, and requires that scientific explanations and theories be supported by empirical evidence that can be independently verified and tested.
The whole idea of independent verification and testing, while a good idea, virtually ensures that belief will never gain a foothold in the larger community since it is seemingly required that everybody vote for it before it is accepted as peer reviewed. In other words, ALL will see and ALL will verify and accept the reality (versus belief or "fantasy) or ALL will reject such theory as illogical, irrational, and unprovable (NOT evident).
When applying scientific knowledge and understanding to our lives, we are relying on the well-established and widely accepted scientific explanations and theories that have been developed through the scientific method and have been supported by a substantial body of empirical evidence.
This is essentially Stiles argument. While he personally is open to evidence of God, he clams that none is found and that the consensus within the scientic methodology of thinking is unanimous...God does NOT exist.
While it is true that all scientific knowledge is provisional and subject to revision based on new evidence, the scientific method and the extensive peer-review process that scientific findings undergo make it highly unlikely that established scientific explanations will be overturned by new evidence.
And this is why most thinkers at EvC Forum will likely never change their minds. They figure that unless God whaps them upside the head, no new evidence will ever EVER emerge. In addition, they buy into the mythicist argument which discredits the Bible story in general.
The phrase "strong basis for confidence" is subjective, as different people may have different levels of confidence in the reliability of scientific knowledge based on various factors such as their own personal experiences, beliefs, and perspectives.
However...
relying on science in our daily lives is not the same as taking a leap of faith in a religious or supernatural belief, as science is based on a systematic and evidence-based approach to understanding the natural world, and the scientific method provides a strong foundation for our confidence in established scientific explanations.
You must admit that it is a fairly solid argument. To continue...
Science and the knowledge and technologies that it has produced have the potential to benefit society and improve our lives, but they also have the potential to cause harm if not used responsibly. This is why it is important for scientific knowledge to be developed, used, and communicated in a way that is transparent, ethical, and accountable. Science should be subject to ongoing evaluation and revision to ensure that it continues to advance our understanding of the world and to minimize any negative consequences of its applications.
Since I believe in a spirtual war of sorts, I am more pessimistic than the average humanist/scientist, who will argue that the evidence shows that humans are all we got...so best to trust our evolving technology and knowledge. And i will admit that I am fatalistic at times.
we need to be mindful of the potential risks and benefits of science and technology, and work to minimize the risks while maximizing the benefits. This requires ongoing critical evaluation and responsible use of scientific knowledge and technology.
I think it should be a personal decision whether or not to receive a vaccine. Personally, I have had 4 shots and feel fine. I would resist a mandatory government order that I MUST get shots, however.
AZCosmic Mystic writes:
Why is this here?
Because we seek to fight your arrogance in the shamanic "worship" of science, O Arizona Vortex Lover!
Stile writes:
...those solidified into chasing a certain, specific goal, will see themselves "win" that goal no matter what evidence is actually shown to them - and prove that they are not after the truth in any meaningful way.
Actually I think that is true. There will never be universal consensus among humans on the best path forward.
riVeRrat writes:
What I read here is I outsmarted gtp then.
AI will eventually dominate our right brains, but "it" will never best our left brained empathy,love of and search for truth. AI by definition can and will NEVER be truth.
Taq writes:
Infectious diseases are not a personal choice. We spread diseases between each other. This makes it a social decision, one that can and should be part of decision making at a governmental level. When you refuse a vaccine you are potentially threatening the life of others.

With that said, we can certainly have a discussion about whether a government should require citizens to be vaccinated. However, let's do away with the illusion that this is somehow a decision a person makes that has no impact on others.
Likely what will (or should) happen is that though individuals will and should have the final say on getting vaccines, they will also have the responsibility to self quarantine in extreme situations.
Tangle writes:
What I read here was a computer wishing it could slap your face.
As I said before, the "computer" will never best us in Left Brain thinking. If it ever did, we would be robbed of our basic humanity. The day a Bot slaps my face (or pulls me over for a traffic stop) is the day I pull out a shotgun and blast the thing. Defund The Bots!


The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” - Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You (1894).
When both religious and non-religious people reach the same conclusions then you know religion isn't the reason.--Percy
Democrats should not be the only party. Respect the two-party system. -Phat, in December 2022
We see Monsters where Science shows us Windmills.~Phat, remixed

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by riVeRraT, posted 02-03-2023 10:39 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by riVeRraT, posted 02-03-2023 11:16 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
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