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Author Topic:   hello from messenjah of one
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1348 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 1 of 35 (716749)
01-21-2014 12:03 AM


Username doesn't mean anything. Picked one that seemed decent enough from the slew of monikers I had adopted when I last used this site. Not sure if I care to know exactly when that was.
I'm currently 25. Got an MA in English a few years ago. Work two part time jobs at two schools as a swim coach and substitute teacher's aide. Going back to school to get a teaching degree so I can teach high school English.
Brother Charlie's fine, although, due to a culmination of things that I would rather not delve into in this post, he's become more religious since his brief stint on EvC.
Not much has changed. I wouldn't call myself a creationist nor would I call myself an evolutionist. I think both views kinda miss the point. Creationist's apply a narrow view of literalism to language. Evolutionists hinge their belief system on science based on empirical evidence and a human codification of the natural world through ancient artifacts and dating methods--perhaps, in my view at least, neglecting the spiritual side of mankind.
I'm finding this post hard to compose because I shouldn't be here. The sad truth is I haven't changed much since I was banned from this site some time ago. In some ways, I'm a worse human. I guess that's what I get for getting a couple English degrees (attempt at humor).
Jar, thanks for your advice and unheeded words of guidance.
Phat, hello to you, too.
This forum unfortunately was a gateway drug of sorts for a long and sordid life of message boards and online escapism for me.
I think 25 is a good year for new beginnings, and I still question the acumen of this poorly worded and unedited message. Why did I come back in the first place?
Well, oh well.
I got involved in a born again church for a few months when I was still going through hell working for the post office (I survived two years there).
That's my life in a nutshell.
Edited by Kierkegaard, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
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 Message 4 by nwr, posted 01-21-2014 9:11 AM Trump won has replied
 Message 5 by Modulous, posted 01-21-2014 9:38 AM Trump won has replied
 Message 6 by Stile, posted 01-21-2014 10:28 AM Trump won has not replied
 Message 7 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-21-2014 2:59 PM Trump won has not replied
 Message 8 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-21-2014 3:00 PM Trump won has not replied
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Larni
Member
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 2 of 35 (716753)
01-21-2014 4:03 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Trump won
01-21-2014 12:03 AM


Hi.
When you say neglecting the spiritual, exactly what do you mean when you use the word 'spiritual'?
Do you have a working definition?
All the best.

The above ontological example models the zero premise to BB theory. It does so by applying the relative uniformity assumption that the alleged zero event eventually ontologically progressed from the compressed alleged sub-microscopic chaos to bloom/expand into all of the present observable order, more than it models the Biblical record evidence for the existence of Jehovah, the maximal Biblical god designer.
-Attributed to Buzsaw Message 53
The explain to them any scientific investigation that explains the existence of things qualifies as science and as an explanation
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 286
Does a query (thats a question Stile) that uses this physical reality, to look for an answer to its existence and properties become theoretical, considering its deductive conclusions are based against objective verifiable realities.
-Attributed to Dawn Bertot Message 134

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Trump won, posted 01-21-2014 12:03 AM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 18429
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 3 of 35 (716756)
01-21-2014 4:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Trump won
01-21-2014 12:03 AM


Hello Messenjah
Glad that you got that MA. They cant take that away from you. Life is a constant learning experience. Thanks for saying hello...I wondered what you two were up to... So Charlie is uber religious, eh? jar and I still go round and round...he thinks that humans were given the capacity to know right from wrong and that how we relate to humans is more important than how we relate to God...whom he says is ultimately unknowable..I disagree, but I respect his logic.
Yeah things are the same here. Forums are like chewing gum for the mind....they offer little in the way of interpersonal nutrition....but there are exceptions. Keep learning and studying and be as honorable to others as you can on a daily basis.
Im proud of you for continuing your education. You have grown. Dont be ashamed of yourself. (More in private message)
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 6438
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 4 of 35 (716768)
01-21-2014 9:11 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Trump won
01-21-2014 12:03 AM


Hi, Kierk. Welcome back.
Evolutionists hinge their belief system on science based on empirical evidence and a human codification of the natural world through ancient artifacts and dating methods--perhaps, in my view at least, neglecting the spiritual side of mankind.
When asked if I am spiritual, I am tempted to repy "Yes, I enjoy the occasional glass of wine." That's a way of saying that I really don't know what people mean by "spiritual".
In any case, some people say that they are spiritual but not religious. I'm still not sure what they mean by "spiritual", though I have a rough guess. So I'm going to use the word in accordance with that rough guess, for the purposes of this post.
Conservatives criticize science as being very mechanistic, and presumably that implies that scientists ignore the spiritual.
Here's a blog post that I read this morning: How to Save the GOP
It reports that some conservatives think they can save the GOP by emphasizing charter schools.
Personally, as I look at the conservative approach to education, including their emphasis on charter schools, I see conservatives as being very mechanistic about education and ignoring the spiritual.
So perhaps conservatives and liberals just have very different ways of looking at things. And perhaps you are too invested in the conservative perspective and have missed a lot of what liberals (which includes many scientists) take to be important.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Trump won, posted 01-21-2014 12:03 AM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
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Modulous
Member (Idle past 93 days)
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 5 of 35 (716770)
01-21-2014 9:38 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Trump won
01-21-2014 12:03 AM


Evolutionists hinge their belief system on science based on empirical evidence and a human codification of the natural world through ancient artifacts and dating methods--perhaps, in my view at least, neglecting the spiritual side of mankind.
All science neglects 'the spiritual side of man' since that is an ill-formed hypothesis that is thus impossible to investigate. Why do you pick and choose which scientific theories and conclusions to ignore or dismiss? I'm not sure what the flaw in comporting one's beliefs based on observation is, it built the computer you are using after all. Computer science completely neglects the spiritual side of mankind too.
I wouldn't call myself a creationist nor would I call myself an evolutionist. I think both views kinda miss the point. Creationist's apply a narrow view of literalism to language
Are you saying that god did not create life and that such a view is narrow?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Trump won, posted 01-21-2014 12:03 AM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Trump won, posted 01-21-2014 10:23 PM Modulous has replied

  
Stile
Member (Idle past 152 days)
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 6 of 35 (716773)
01-21-2014 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Trump won
01-21-2014 12:03 AM


Like a rolling stone
Kierkegaard writes:
hello from messenjah of one
Hello from Stile!!
I wouldn't call myself a creationist nor would I call myself an evolutionist.
What do you consider "an evolutionist" to be? I can think of two main possibilities:
  • Anyone who accepts evolution as a valid truth/fact
  • Someone who is also an atheist
In my experiences, there are many people who believe in God and also accept evolution as a fact.
Creationist's apply a narrow view of literalism to language.
For the most part, I agree with this sentiment.
Evolutionists hinge their belief system on science based on empirical evidence and a human codification of the natural world through ancient artifacts and dating methods--perhaps, in my view at least, neglecting the spiritual side of mankind.
This sounds... oddly specific. I'm not sure if there are many people within this "evolutionist" definition.
It certainly is very easy to have a spiritual side of mankind, accept evolution as a fact and not be a Christian by any definition (even to the point of being an atheist).
This forum unfortunately was a gateway drug of sorts for a long and sordid life of message boards and online escapism for me.
Heh... don't forget about real life, even if only for the reason that it supports your ability to post here. Forget about real life for long enough, and you'll be forced to stop posting here (no money = no internet).
But, hopefully you'll have other more important reasons to not forget about real life.
Don't worry about this place. Have fun here when you have time for it... the messages are all saved, they're not going anywhere. Answer when you have a chance.
I got involved in a born again church for a few months...
I am interested in hearing more about that, if you care to share.
What were some of the good experiences?
What were some of the bad experiences?
Welcome back, and take your time!

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 35 (716799)
01-21-2014 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Trump won
01-21-2014 12:03 AM


Evolutionists hinge their belief system on science based on empirical evidence and a human codification of the natural world through ancient artifacts and dating methods--perhaps, in my view at least, neglecting the spiritual side of mankind.
Not necessarily. Many evolutionists are also religious.

This message is a reply to:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 8 of 35 (716800)
01-21-2014 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Trump won
01-21-2014 12:03 AM


Evolutionists hinge their belief system on science based on empirical evidence and a human codification of the natural world through ancient artifacts and dating methods--perhaps, in my view at least, neglecting the spiritual side of mankind.
Plumbers neglect the spiritual side of mankind when they fix the pipes, that doesn't mean that they can't do plumbing or that the pipes don't exist.

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Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1348 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 9 of 35 (716856)
01-21-2014 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Larni
01-21-2014 4:03 AM


.
Edited by Kierkegaard, : No reason given.

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Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1348 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 10 of 35 (716857)
01-21-2014 8:12 PM


i'm not interested in debate and can't pretend I am sorry folks
went around in those circles enough when I was a kid to know better

Replies to this message:
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Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1348 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 11 of 35 (716859)
01-21-2014 8:44 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Trump won
01-21-2014 8:12 PM


I'll give it a shot
Edited by Kierkegaard, : No reason given.

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Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1348 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 12 of 35 (716860)
01-21-2014 8:44 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Larni
01-21-2014 4:03 AM


man's innate propensity to worship

This message is a reply to:
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Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1348 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 13 of 35 (716861)
01-21-2014 8:46 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by nwr
01-21-2014 9:11 AM


I don't understand this post. it seems like political gobbledygook jargon.

This message is a reply to:
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Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1348 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 14 of 35 (716865)
01-21-2014 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Modulous
01-21-2014 9:38 AM


I thank you for this reply because it inadvertently led me to rediscover an obscure classic called "snakehunter" a novel by chuck kinder who was a peer of Raymond carver in writing classes.
I figure i'll share something from it
"Because, Catherine said, many people considered its unusual markings to symbolize the birth, crucifixion, and resurrection of Christ, the sand dollar is often called the Holy Ghost Shell. On the top side of the shell an outline of the Easter lily can be traced. Then, in the lily's center, there appears a five-pointed star which represents the Star of Bethlehem. Symbolic of the four nail holes and the spear wound made in Christ's body are the five narrow openings. Both the Christmas poinsettia and the bell can be recognized in outline on the shell's bottom. Then, when broken open, the shell reveals five small birds, which are called the Doves of Peace. Some say these doves represent the angels that sang the first Christmas morning to the shepherds.
This Catherine told me, was an example of how things become real. Since they have no true value of their own, the things of the world must acquire it. And they acquire it from us. This is how they participate in our reality, one that ultimately transcends them. Indeed, one that ultimately transcends us. And it is all like this, she said. All colors, all textures, the shape of all things, even time and space: they are all illusionary movements of intuition."
def: Intuition is the ability to acquire knowledge without inference and/or the use of reason
so you see that evolutionists put the bedrock of their belief on the material world. they live and die by the codification, evidence, edification, fossils, geology, spectroscope of the material world. but man is the namer, the adam, the one who ascribes value and meaning to the world often through intuition and this intuition breeds god and Christ and savior and fate and heaven and hell and the alpha and omega and the rapture and the one true holy apostolic church
i'm not a robot destined to die in the ground and the dust of myself is dust but my soul lives eternally and is internally recognized by Christ's death and intuition reveals his selfhood to be true as a living parasitic organism in my heart dictating my moves and ideas and actions and thoughts and sins and forgiveness in the world
Edited by Kierkegaard, : No reason given.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 15 of 35 (716868)
01-21-2014 10:59 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Trump won
01-21-2014 10:23 PM


But the sand dollar is also a sort of flattened sea urchin, and we have the intermediate forms to prove it. And there is a sort of pleasure in that too.

This message is a reply to:
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