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Member (Idle past 1662 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Transitional Fossils Show Evolution in Process | |||||||||||||||||||||
RAZD Member (Idle past 1662 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
We often see complaints or comments about the absence of fossil evidence for transitions in evolution. This usually comes in two parts:
(1) There are no transitional fossils
PRATT CC200 quote: Often this is due to a misunderstanding of what "transitional" means in evolutionary biology: Transitional fossil - Wikipedia
quote: Thus all fossils that show intermediate characteristics between ancestral forms and descendant forms are by definition transitional. Thus whenever we see a clear lineage of fossils from an ancestral form (plesiomorphic) to derived descendant form (apomorphic), and thus they are transitional fossils. Transitional fossils will be intermediate in form between ancestral forms and descendant forms, and they will share some, but not all, traits with both ancestors and descendants, and some traits shared by ancestors, the transitional fossil and descendants may themselves be shown in intermediate stages of development, between the ancestral and descendant forms of the traits. (2) There should be billions of transitional fossils
PRATT CC200.1 quote: A recent example of this misunderstanding was presented by Kaichos Man on An ongoing report on S366:Evolution Message 19:
The lack of transitionals that Gould was talking about was small-scale, ie between what would be considered very similar species, neighbours on the tree of life. And this is prcisely what we should see in the fossil record in abundance. Darwin was certain that future fossil finds would support his theory. They didn't. So now neo-Darwinists harp on about fossils being "extremely rare", and "difficult to form". What a load of parrot droppings. Take a look around. Rivers, lakes, seas and oceans everywhere. Daily tides. Frequent droughts and floods. Fossils are being formed by the ton as we speak, all over the world. And this process has been going on for (supposedly) millions of years. If the theory of evolution was true, we would be up to our necks in transitional fossils, each tiny darwinian step lovingly catalogued in the strata. The lack of transitional fossils can only -only- be explained by a lack of transitional species. This thread is intended to discuss and answer this issue. Enjoy. ps - I will also add 3 responses as subthreads, which will cover my initial response at Message 20, so please let me complete those before promotion. Edited by Admin, : Fix rendering. we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1662 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
In the post that inspired this thread Kaichos Man claimed (Message 19):
The lack of transitional fossils can only -only- be explained by a lack of transitional species. This, of course is the hoary old "absence of evidence is evidence of absence" logical fallacy. The complete absence of fossil evidence for the Coelacanth between the end of the Cretaceous period and modern day clearly proves that these fish did not exist between then and now .... Clearly this statement is false when the Coelacanths are living organisms in the modern world. Other logical fallacies are the argument from ignorance (there are no transitional fossils) and the argument from incredulity (we should be up to our necks in transitional fossils). Logical fallacies are invalid arguments. Enjoy. we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1662 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
In the post that inspired this thread Kaichos Man claimed (Message 19):
If the theory of evolution was true, we would be up to our necks in transitional fossils, each tiny darwinian step lovingly catalogued in the strata. There are many examples of transitional fossils, and I will discuss two of these as they apply at the species level and they show precisely the "tiny dawinian step" involved in the process of speciation. (1) Foramiinifera:
Evolution at SeaComplete Fossil Record from the Ocean Upholds Darwins Gradualism quote: Not just transitional fossils between one species to the next, but the whole pattern of this foraminifera phylum laid out in detail. (2) Pelycodus:
A Smooth Fossil Transition: Pelycodus, a primate quote: This fossil record clearly shows the "tiny dawinian steps" from generation to generation. Note that the "gaps" in time for the fossils are more than covered by the overlap in the variation within each level, each level has organisms similar to the ancestral population below it and to the descendant population above it. Conclusion Clearly transitional fossils exist at the species level, fossils that clearly show the "tiny dawinian steps" from generation to generation. Enjoy. Edited by RAZD, : spling we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1662 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
In the post that began this thread Kaichos Man claimed (Message 19):
... this is prcisely what we should see in the fossil record in abundance. Darwin was certain that future fossil finds would support his theory. They didn't. So now neo-Darwinists harp on about fossils being "extremely rare", and "difficult to form". What a load of parrot droppings. Take a look around. Rivers, lakes, seas and oceans everywhere. Daily tides. Frequent droughts and floods. Fossils are being formed by the ton as we speak, all over the world. And this process has been going on for (supposedly) millions of years. If the theory of evolution was true, we would be up to our necks in transitional fossils, each tiny darwinian step lovingly catalogued in the strata. We can ascertain the veracity of this arguement from incredulity by comparing the fossil record for the Foraminifera, Pelycodus and the Coelacanth. As we see in the case of Foraminifera, transitional fossils between species (and higher) exist in abundance at all levels, and in this one case they cover millions of years in a continuous record. This is because the accumulation of these fossils in this location is not reliant on haphazard fossilization, random environmental factors or other things affecting the fossilization of individual organisms. Thus we see, that when there are no causes preventing the reservation of fossils, or for disrupting fossils after deposition, that there is indeed the well preserved record of evolving life year after year, generation after generation, species after species, etc etc, for millions of years. Next we look at Pelycodus and we do see gaps between the fossil layers. There are several reasons such gaps can exist:
Finally, we look at the Coelacanth. The last fossil evidence for Coelacanths is over 65 million years old: Coelacanth - Wikipedia
quote: Here we have a gap in the fossil record of ~65 million years, and yet we have living Coelacanths that clearly show that the absence of fossil evidence is not evidence of absence of Coelacanths. This also shows that fossils do not have to be preserved for intermediate forms. Conclusions What is clear, from comparing these three cases, is:
Simply put, fossils do not need to exist to fill in gaps in the fossil record for intermediate forms to have existed. Enjoy. we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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Admin Director Posts: 13108 From: EvC Forum Joined: |
Thread copied to the Transitional Fossils Show Evolution in Process thread in the Biological Evolution forum, this copy of the thread has been closed.
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