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Author Topic:   Another example that the present may hold clues to the past . (Catfish hunts on land)
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 1 of 9 (304050)
04-13-2006 7:43 PM


One big question has alweays been why would sea creatures evolve into land animals. A recent Catfish study may offer some insight into what may have happened.
{Fixed typo in topic title. - Adminnemooseus}
{Added the "(Catfish hunts on land" part to topic title. - Adminnemooseus}
This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 04-14-2006 03:41 PM
This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 05-02-2006 04:50 PM

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by ramoss, posted 04-13-2006 9:55 PM jar has replied
 Message 4 by Adminnemooseus, posted 04-13-2006 10:10 PM jar has not replied
 Message 5 by EZscience, posted 04-13-2006 10:12 PM jar has replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 643 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 2 of 9 (304067)
04-13-2006 9:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by jar
04-13-2006 7:43 PM


What I find is interesting is that comparing ancient fossils with living animals can give us clues on to what could have happened.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by jar, posted 04-13-2006 7:43 PM jar has replied

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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 3 of 9 (304070)
04-13-2006 9:59 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by ramoss
04-13-2006 9:55 PM


Exactly. The process never stops.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3976
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 4 of 9 (304071)
04-13-2006 10:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by jar
04-13-2006 7:43 PM


Crappy topic title, message 1 essentially a bare link
So far, in three messages, we seem to have two words of content - "catfish study".
Could you have done a worse job in starting this topic?
Adminnemooseus

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This message is a reply to:
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EZscience
Member (Idle past 5184 days)
Posts: 961
From: A wheatfield in Kansas
Joined: 04-14-2005


Message 5 of 9 (304073)
04-13-2006 10:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by jar
04-13-2006 7:43 PM


Jar.
The clue to answering to your question is within the article you cited.
quote:
a new study reveals they slither around and adeptly catch insect meals
Invertebrates preceded vertebrates on land by millions of years, and plants established on land even earlier.
The payoff for a transition to terrestrial existence was the opportunity to feed on terrestrial plants and invertebrates that had escaped natural enemies in marine environments and were likely poorly defended, having never faced browsers or predators subsequent to their own transition on to land. The real payoff for the initial colonizers would have been a new resource base to exploit without any predators in situ.

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 Message 1 by jar, posted 04-13-2006 7:43 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by jar, posted 04-13-2006 10:17 PM EZscience has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 6 of 9 (304074)
04-13-2006 10:17 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by EZscience
04-13-2006 10:12 PM


Interesting but I need more help understanding.
Invertebrates preceded vertebrates on land by millions of years, and plants established on land even earlier.
Invertebrates? Is that like bugs and such?
The payoff for a transition to terrestrial existence was the opportunity to feed on terrestrial plants and invertebrates that had escaped natural enemies in marine environments and were likely poorly defended, having never faced browsers or predators subsequent to their own transition on to land.
Why is that?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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EZscience
Member (Idle past 5184 days)
Posts: 961
From: A wheatfield in Kansas
Joined: 04-14-2005


Message 7 of 9 (304077)
04-13-2006 10:30 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by jar
04-13-2006 10:17 PM


Re: Interesting but I need more help understanding.
jar writes:
Invertebrates? Is that like bugs and such?
Yes. Anything without a backbone. The kinds of things that make great food for larger things with backbones.
jar writes:
Why is that?
Think about it. The first small plants to colonize land would have had a virgin environment to exploit, abesnt the competitors they surely would have faced in their marine environment. Same goes for the first small invertebrates. Assuming they were a little later, they would have found a bunch of plants to eat that had not been investing much in chemical defenses, being unbrowsed since their transition to land. Later still, larger vertebrate animals would have found huge, relatively unexploited, resources of food in the forms of both plants and invertebrates when they first made the transition to land.

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 Message 6 by jar, posted 04-13-2006 10:17 PM jar has replied

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jar
Member (Idle past 425 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 8 of 9 (304078)
04-13-2006 10:36 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by EZscience
04-13-2006 10:30 PM


Re: Interesting but I need more help understanding.
In the report it says that the cat fish, because of the way they are built, climb up on land, bonk the bug, then drag it back into the water to eat.
So if one slightly different catfish had a mutation that let him eat on land without the step of having to return to the water to eat on each bug bash trip, that cat fish would have an advantage?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by EZscience, posted 04-13-2006 10:30 PM EZscience has replied

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EZscience
Member (Idle past 5184 days)
Posts: 961
From: A wheatfield in Kansas
Joined: 04-14-2005


Message 9 of 9 (304083)
04-13-2006 10:58 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by jar
04-13-2006 10:36 PM


Re: Interesting but I need more help understanding.
Yes, but it goes a lot deeper than simply being able to eat on land. The critical adaptations for terrestrial existence would be as follows.
1. Ability to breathe air for indefinite periods (thorough modified gills, presumably).
This would enable longer foraging bouts on land.
2. Internal fertilization. (A whole host of consequences arise from this one). Without this adaptation, vertebrates would be still tied to the marine environment for reproduction (recall fish and amphibians fertilize externally).
3. Eggs able to withstand desiccation in terrestrial habitats.
An alternative to this was adopted by most vertebrates - increased gestation periods with live birth of altricial young, followed later on by live birth of precocial young in some larger vertebrates.

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