Blaming God, who you say doesn't exist

The atheist position, respectfully consists of a bizzarity I cannot figure out. If you are an atheist you don't believe in God but I've discovered that the atheist will also attatch negative connotations to the God that they think.......erm, ....doesn't exist?If he's the bad guy then he exists right? If he doesn't exist then he can't be to blame. If they believe both where is the logic? Help my confusion, as I have never in any circumstance whatsoever, seen an atheist attribute a good thing to God.They want to blame evil on that which they say doesn't exist = they are against God. Either way their position is obvious. If they said the good things are of God then we could trust them, but they will only attribute that which is negative, to God.Are atheist's saying that there isn't a God because of the negative things in the world? Or are they saying there is a God because of them? If it is the former, then it is the lack of God's existence that lets negative things happen. So surely they should argue the former rather than the latter? If they argue that God = evil, then they are admitting God exists? Do you think you should argue the former or the latter?Would you say "God lets rapes/killings and wars happen", rather than "Rapes/killings and wars happen because he doesn't exist".You can't have it both ways, if you choose the former then your position is proved to be a biased one against the idea of God. If you choose the latter then I can show that according to the bible these things don't prove God's none-existence. Remember, I believe in the biblical God, and he is whom I refer to alway. So you can argue the latter with a believer in a none-biblical god but your argument is easily refuted if you claim it against the biblical God.I have had atheists try to convince me that bad things = God's none-existence. But they are also happy to blame God for bad things. So can I apply the same logic to good things? I suppose with this bizarre mindset, I would end up blaming the good things on satan. It says in the bible that people warp these things to suit their own opinion, having "good for evil and evil for good". If you are going to argue against the biblical God you must realize that satan must be mentioned in our debate, as the bible teaches that satan = evil, rather than that which you want us to heed, which is God = evil.Yet it is most significant that satan will escape all blame and/or not be mentioned. Think about it, satan isn't getting any blame for being the bad guy aswell as escaping a mention. So satan will have a good reputation and not be mentioned. I mean, are you atheists unwittingly increasing my faith by doing that which the bible says is true? You see, satan doesn't say "stop sinning and change your life". So it's not hard to see why people are dedicatedly against the idea of God, cos satan basically tells us what we want to hear, rather then telling us what we need to hear.

Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

I think the problem is mostly one of language - of people stating a hypothetical situation to get your input.If one says, "Does your God want rape?" or even "God must want rape to happen," it does not necessarily imply that one believes in God or believes that God somehow endorses sexual assault. It is likely a condemnation of the notion that we simultaneously live in the creation of a living, loving God, and in a creation where rapes are being committed as I write this message. It is a way to ask the question, "how could a (hypothetical) omnipotent loving God allow so much pain and horror in our world, his (hypothetical) creation?"As a side note: you seem intent on bringing Satan into this debate - so I must ask if you see God as more powerful than Satan. I presume you do, and much of the Satan mythos seems to suggest that his power is granted by God, even if simply in the form of his free will. Taken in this light the acts of Satan are the acts of God, at least so far as God's permissive attitude towards them.Also, I've never met an atheist who believes or aligns themselves with Satan, let alone think he has a "good reputation", since then they would be theists by definition.Thanks.

If atheists blame things on God, they might be criticizing your beliefs, rather than acknowledging the existance of God. They feel that if God existed, he would stop bad things and make some effort to watch over us rather than just sit around in Heaven and let things on Earth happen as they may. If God wants to act like he doesn't exist, why should they believe in him?

But evil came into the world after sin. Before sin God made a perfect world. But at the same time he gave humans freewill to obey or reject. All this evil we see today has arisen because of mans choice. Man kills, man rapes. God is not to intervene until the last days. He just asks man to trust in him for all the evil of the world will be flushed out and restored etc.

Almeyda, I undertand the framework of human free will, but your assertion that "God is not to intervene until the last days," does not make him seem like a loving God when so much pain is in the world. If I throw a pack of dogs into a pit and let them fight to the death without intervening, I am horribly cruel because even though the dogs themselves are committing the killing, I have the capacity to predict that outcome, and I do not intervene to stop further cruelty.

so the serpent wasn't evil?

Addage to topic; Ofcourse, I think I was wrong to generalize in message one. When I say "atheist" it may appear like an attack on the whole group. That's not my intention though, as if you read the O.P., there is an oppurtunity there for atheists to show that they are truly an atheist, rather than an atheist of sorts, who is atheist because they are against God.

Well sure, the Bible says that he'll be back, but why should we trust it? If God even exists, he didn't leave any evidence for his prescence in the first place and he shows no signs of returning that can't be explained away as hoaxes and natural phenomena. If God exists, he must be making an effort to be invisible to us. He must want us to lose faith in him, so why should we have faith when he doesn't want us to believe anyway?

In mathematics this is a common technique called "argument by contradiction." You take what you want to prove, assume the opposite, and then use logic to arrive at a contridiction. This indicates that the assumption, the opposite of the intended conclusion, is false so the intended conclusion is true.So, it is not hypocritical so say:God does not exist. To prove this, let us assume that he does....

You've never taken a logic class have you? When atheists, such as myself, ask questions like "does your god...?" we are not recognizing its existence. We are merely stepping back (because some christians are just too damn stubborn to think in someone else's shoes) and debate on the christian's own battle ground.In order for any debate to not turn into a pointless argument, there has to be a basis that both sides agree with. Since atheists are convinced that there is no god and christians are convinced that there is one, either the christians have to say "let us suppose for a moment that there is no god..." or the atheists have to say "let us suppose for a moment that there is a god...."Simple enough?

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The Laminator

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Just as long as you know that you can't logically blame God for the bad things only. Now when debating with them, they have only ever attached a negative attribute to God. If I seen them attach the good things also, then surely I could trust them more. You see, how is it an unbeliever will support those things of doubt/negativity? Obviously because they themselves harbour doubt/negativity. For at no time were they ever forced to conclude a negative conclusion. Nor does the bible give them a reason to do so, what with the full explanation therein.So which do you ultimately choose? Are the bad things because of God, or the lack of God? If you argue the former and latter, why not atleast admitt that you want it to fit your latter. Afterall, in another light, this could be that I am merely saying "Atheists don't believe in God, because of negative things in the world that he supposedly lets happen". What's so bad about that?Now if I am so closed minded, and you are so un-closed minded, I am sure that you will be able to see, that the bible explains these things. So let's test your righteoussness then. Can you admitt that the bible suggests satan is the enemy? And that God has chosen to deal with sin/evil in his own way, and not the human's way?You said; This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 06-14-2004 03:16 PM

Would you want to watch the news tonite and see it talks about the perfectly good landings of all aircrafts? Of course not! You would want to see the 747 crash at 6pm or the bombing in Washington. Nobody wants to hear, "absolutely nothing happened today at O'hare airport. Today was another perfectly good day."

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The Laminator

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When was the last time you flew out of O'Hare?Dude, there are no perfectly good days at O'Hare.

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"Egos drone and pose alone, Like black balloons, all banged and blown
On a backwards river the infidels shiver in the stench of belief.
And tell my mama I'm a hundred years late; I'm over the rails and out of the race
The crippled psalms of an age that won't thaw are ringing in my ears"
-Beck

Sorry, I've edited my message. Please now read message 12, I am sorry about re-editing.Gotchta stop this editing thing!!!!!!!This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 06-14-2004 04:18 PM