Big Bang vs. God

I just wanted to say that nobody can prove anything here. theres not enough evidence to prove creation or evolution perfectly correct and there never will be. but from what I see, creationists have alot more confidence in their beliefs and most of them are so shure that God exists that they dont even try to look for proof. its obvious that creationists have something evolutionists dont have. for one thing people who believe in God agree with 30% of the world population. this may seem little but more than 75% of the 70% left believe in a supirior being or Budda or something. Evolutionists dont really have a society. Also the chances of evolution are about 1 in (10 to the exponent of 44,000) thats 44 thousand 0s. So from what I see evolutionists dont have their own society to back them up.

What are you talking about, Benn? The Roman Catholic Church might be said to "believe in God," and their official position is that the Big Bang happened, and that bio;ogical evolution is the probable explanation for life as we now see it.
And what on earth does "Evolutionists dont really have a society" mean?

While final proof of some things isn't what can be achieved it is possible to completly disprove some things.
The idea of a 6,000 year old earth, of a global flood and of creation of all forms of life in one short period have all been falsified. There are too many things which would have to be there and arne't for these things to be true. There are too many things which are there which wouldn't be for these things to be true.So while one side doesn't have finally proof of truth in a form like a mathematical theorem has the other side has ideas which are demonstratable not true.

Hrm, that's a good point. So, whats a good way to determine who is right? Maybe, you could go with the side that has the most evidence, perhaps? It may be that evolutionists are a little more humble, but all the evolutionists I know are supremely confident that creationists are wrong, at least. Let me help you with the math - 75% of 70% is about 50% of the original total. Sure we do. It's called "scientists". The best part is, anyone can join the club. You just have to read some books and take some classes. It's totally easy. Even a 9-year-old kid did some real, published science. So probably you can, too. Hrm, fascinating. Of course the chances of creation are like 1 in 10 to the power of 88,000, so obviously evolution is more likely.See how much fun it is to make up probabilities with no justification? Like I said, it's called "the scientific community". Maybe you've heard of them - they're the people that brought you hygene, technology, and medicine.

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Also the chances of evolution are about 1 in (10 to the exponent of 44,000) thats 44 thousand 0s. So from what I see evolutionists dont have their own society to back them up.

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Tell that to the new strain of bacteria found in Japan, feeding off industrial waste that has only existed in the world for a few decades. Tell it to your parents, whose genes are slightly different from yours, due to random mutations. But don't tell it to me. I think you're confusing evolution with abiogenesis, but regardless - everything we see in the real world today says that life evolved.Doing silly calculations about the chance of our being here is really pointless, because we are here. The chance of my doubling my money at a casino tonight was pretty small, but I did it. Should I fret about how unlikely it was? Claim that it didn't happen? I don't think so.

To elaborate on the casino metaphor: the chance that any one particular sequence of, say, fifty numbers shows up on a roulette table is approximately 3.9 * 10 to the power of -79. (1/37 ^ 50, to be exact.) That's what I would call, somewhat paradoxically, a 'fat chance'. Yet, if you walk into any casino, you'll find that an event with that chance has actually taken place. But that isn't very surprising after the fact. The only thing that would stupify anybody, is for someone to have predicted that particular sequence in advance. Evolution doesn't pretend to predict it's outcome, it merely explains the process by which the result, any result, can come about."[...] the chances of evolution are about 1 in (10 to the exponent of 44,000) thats 44 thousand 0s."
I bet you didn't arrive at that number by yourself. So, I can only conclude that either your source is incredibly stupid, or you have been to lied to by them.Also, creationists should finally wrap their minds around the following: evolution didn't happen overnight. It isn't as if some chemicals were mixed together, some lightbolts were thrown in (a la Miller), and presto: a complete, functional rabbit was pulled out of the hat, as if by magic. Evolution is possible because it comes down to a very, very, VERY long sequence of small changes, each having a definite, non-zero (and not even very small) probability.[This message has been edited by Parasomnium, 07-30-2003]

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Also the chances of evolution are about 1 in (10 to the exponent of 44,000) thats 44 thousand 0s.

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So you admit it can Happen? that can very well be the number! what you don't Understand is the Universe is a Big place although that seems like alot to you. thats nothing. as Big as the Universe is its going to happen someplace

As a sort of play-like "aside" I must say that I can't recall encountering a fantastic thread title like this one before. Big Bang vs God = FITE!

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Carry on, Agent.

Every society is made from evolutionists. Society doesn't just appear. It has been created and exists in many different forms across the globe, each one bearing their own creation story.Scientifically, however, every societies scientific community has endorsed the idea of a 15 billion or so year old Universe.We know that the Universe is expanding because when we look anywhere in the Universe we see every object moving away from us. The steady state theory is unfounded scientifically, and was only a theoretical conception. We know that the universe is expanding, that the nearest major galaxy is about 2.5 million light years away (Alpha Cent., and that the farthest objects which can be observed by scientists are called quasaras and are about 15-20 billion light years away.
That's pretty far. A light year means that it takes light, traveling at a speed far unreachable by current human technology a year to get to us. The farthest that anyone on Earth can currently see is about 15-20 billion light years away. Crazy huh.So all of this, plus much more, has led people all over the globe from every race, religion, and country who study astronomy, to the conclusion that the universe is at least 15 billion years old, and probably older.God is good. Look at what the Lord has provided for us to explore, the universe is seemingly infinite to our concepts of time and space. A human could not even live long enough to reach the closest star, traveling as fast as our technology will allow, yet there are billions of stars that we can see in our galaxy.
Furthermore, there are billions of galaxies in the universe.
It is mind boggling how wonderful it all is, and this is just a taste of what God can do, although this is already an amazing universe.Whatever your belief is, I suggest that people take time to reflect on the vast expanse of everything visible that is offered in the nights sky. My advise is to never cease to be amazed at God's creation. Don't ever stop wondering.
Furthermore, if for some reason you don't think that the "big bang" theory is an accurate theory to explain the current state of the universes expanding nature as well as its vastness, which spans well over 6,000 light years, feel free to enter any of the Universities or Colleges across the world and use their observatories for your own examination. Let the people of the world know of a more inclussive theory.But for tonight, at least, simply take the time to look up at the stars and be amazed. And never stop wondering.

Alpha Centauri isn't nearly that far away. Alpha Cent. A and B are roughly 4.35 ly distant, while Alpha Cent. C (Proxima Centauri) is about 4.22 ly distant.See this site.There are many more that you could easily find. What is it about the size of the universe that leads to the conclusion that God exists? I never stop wondering, however, I have yet to see anything that God has created. For that matter I am not even sure that a 'God' even exists.------------------
He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife.
- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy

And of course Alpha Centauri isn't a galaxy but a trinary star system. The difference being several billions of stars. But in the vastness of the universe, that's a mere detail of course.Cheers.

LOL. I can't believe I missed that.------------------
He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife.
- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy

I don't think Chris was attempting to prove the existance of God, it seems he was merely pointing out that he doesn't see the contradiction between his faith and his belief in evolution, the Big Bang theory etc.I'm not sure if I see one either.Tinus

Sorry, that was a stupid mistake regarding the nearest star. What I meant to refer to was the nearest major galaxy, Andromeda, which is 2.3 million light years away. So we know that the universe is at least that old because it takes at least that long for light to reach us. If the universe is 6,000 years old, it would be impossible for us to see something that is 2.3 million years old, notably the light from Andromeda.
Thanks compage and others for correcting that.
Also, to compage, my first post was directed more towards "creationists" who suppose that the universe could only be 6,000 years old or so. I was wondering how they account for simple observations such as the red shift, etc.
I was not concluding that there must be a God given the size of the Universe, such an argument would be invalid. My argument was being offered to Christians who believe that "creation" could only happen 6,000 years ago.
If God or some form of a god exists, then maybe you have seen what God has created. However, if not, then neither have I. But my personal belief in God is coupled with the fact that I cannot ignore the reality of the Universe (as far as age, etc.).
The main point of my first post was simply to encourage people who hold religious beliefs from any background (each religion has its own origins theory for the most part) to not be ashamed in accepting how the material world was formed.
I believe in God but don't see that as the slightest problem in believing scientific facts regarding the origin of our planet, etc. I see the big bang, the origin of our galaxy, our star, and our planet as the creation. I was encouraging people who currently think that it just appeared, in the blink of an eye, to re-examine the physical evidence that scientists from every religion, nation, race, etc. have observed and have to account for. What they have observed in all of these cases leads them to the conclusion that there was some type of "big bang" or rapid expansion of the known universe approximately 15-20 billion years ago.What they have not concluded is that everything we see was created in 6 days. It's just something to think about.
[This message has been edited by chrisc, 08-05-2003][This message has been edited by chrisc, 08-05-2003]

That makes far more sense. When, or should I say, if you get a responce be prepared for some really strange answers. I am glad we agree on this.Now, I think I will wait and see what responses you get from the creationists.------------------
He hoped and prayed that there wasn't an afterlife. Then he realized there was a contradiction involved here and merely hoped that there wasn't an afterlife.
- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy