Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 63 (9094 total)
9 online now:
Newest Member: d3r31nz1g3
Post Volume: Total: 901,888 Year: 13,000/6,534 Month: 283/2,210 Week: 224/390 Day: 30/50 Hour: 0/18


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Older fathers responsible for increase in autism?
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7848
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 1 of 14 (671252)
08-23-2012 2:30 PM


Dad's age tied to autism risk
There seem to be a lot of reasons behind the increase in autism diagnoses(vaccines not being one of them). This is an interesting study. All I have read so far are news articles, so the actual findings might be somewhat different than how the media plays it.
Guess it is a good thing my wife and I are adopting rather than having our own biologic child.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Jon, posted 08-23-2012 7:50 PM Theodoric has not replied
 Message 7 by Heathen, posted 08-24-2012 2:30 AM Theodoric has not replied
 Message 12 by Taq, posted 05-08-2015 6:14 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7848
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 2 of 14 (671259)
08-23-2012 5:29 PM


Guess the Donald doesnt like study
Anti-vaxxer Donald Trump dangerously blames increase in autism on combined inoculations

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

  
Jon
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 3 of 14 (671263)
08-23-2012 7:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Theodoric
08-23-2012 2:30 PM


According to the article, the odds and risks are so ridiculously low; I wouldn't make this study be a reason to forgo having my own biological children.
I mean, my father was 46 when I was born. And I turned out just fine.
And so did I.

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Theodoric, posted 08-23-2012 2:30 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by anglagard, posted 08-23-2012 11:48 PM Jon has not replied

  
kofh2u
Member (Idle past 3253 days)
Posts: 1162
From: phila., PA
Joined: 04-05-2004


Message 4 of 14 (671271)
08-23-2012 9:55 PM


Neanderthal throw back due to feminism
This sounds like BS at first but there is a science fiundtion for asserting the hypothesis that Autism is a genetic disorder caused by the recessive trait for Neanderthal introversion being stimuklated by the new cultural matriarchy that that species lived in before its extinction.
We all know that modern man carries Neanderthal genes due ti inbreeding back maybe 150,000 years ago.
We also know that the nurturing of the right social environment can effect the genetic propensities.
These two things can account for sudden emergence of so many new cases in the age.
A proof could be established by measuring the number of s=cases of Autism in patriarchs like Islam.

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 270 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


(2)
Message 5 of 14 (671274)
08-23-2012 11:48 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Jon
08-23-2012 7:50 PM


Exception to the Bullshit Rule
My father was 50 when he sired me and 54 when he sired my sister. My sister is a scientist at LANL. She is currently in charge of the world's most powerful microscope. I was 35 when I sired my daughter, she is a highest honor student college senior finishing a double BS degree in math and chemistry. As to me, I am the black sheep of the family, being only a college dean. Granted this is anecdotal evidence instead of 'science' but I still smell a rat.
I would bet money that this research will be contradicted by further research which allows for more factors. The most successful sperm must out compete millions.
Seems on the level of nutrition 'facts'. Butter bad, margarine good.... no margarine bad butter good, eggs bad. No eggs good, milk bad...no milk good, bacon bad....no bacon good and so on. The same apples to pharmaceuticals but usually in the opposite direction.
The usual sloppy statistics improperly considering all factors reported by the scum of all professions, the one without even the slightest pretense of an ethical code -- journalists.

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Jon, posted 08-23-2012 7:50 PM Jon has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by nwr, posted 08-24-2012 1:19 AM anglagard has not replied
 Message 8 by caffeine, posted 08-24-2012 4:00 AM anglagard has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6185
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 6 of 14 (671277)
08-24-2012 1:19 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by anglagard
08-23-2012 11:48 PM


Re: Exception to the Bullshit Rule
I would bet money that this research will be contradicted by further research which allows for more factors.
That would not surprise me at all.
I'm planning to not draw any conclusions at present. Let's wait until some other researchers have checked it out.

Jesus was a liberal hippie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by anglagard, posted 08-23-2012 11:48 PM anglagard has not replied

  
Heathen
Member (Idle past 717 days)
Posts: 1067
From: Brizzle
Joined: 09-20-2005


(3)
Message 7 of 14 (671280)
08-24-2012 2:30 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Theodoric
08-23-2012 2:30 PM


quote:
increase in autism diagnoses
Could a reason, at least in part, for this be the massive leaps in understanding the condition?
for one, Autism is understood, now, to be a 'spectrum'. So whereas many folk who had 'mild' autism would perhaps not have been diagnosed and/or just assumed to be geeky or have behavioural problems, are now grouped under the heading "Autism" thereby increasing the numbers with the condition.
It's a similar thing with Cancer diagnoses, with the discovery of more types of cancer, and better techniques for detection it's inevitable that the numbers are going to increase.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Theodoric, posted 08-23-2012 2:30 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
caffeine
Member (Idle past 458 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


(1)
Message 8 of 14 (671282)
08-24-2012 4:00 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by anglagard
08-23-2012 11:48 PM


Re: Exception to the Bullshit Rule
My father was 50 when he sired me and 54 when he sired my sister. My sister is a scientist at LANL. She is currently in charge of the world's most powerful microscope. I was 35 when I sired my daughter, she is a highest honor student college senior finishing a double BS degree in math and chemistry. As to me, I am the black sheep of the family, being only a college dean. Granted this is anecdotal evidence instead of 'science' but I still smell a rat.
Surely you realise that your personal account is not only anecdotal, but wholly irrelevant to the accuracy of this study.
Most people do not develop autism. If children born to older fathers have a slightly higher risk of autism, then this means that most children born to older fathers do not develop autism either. If we picked somebody with an older dad at random, they'd be more likely to not be autistic than to be autistic.
And yet I can't see any other reason for the rodent odour. What's so prima facie improbable about the idea?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by anglagard, posted 08-23-2012 11:48 PM anglagard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by jar, posted 08-24-2012 9:05 AM caffeine has not replied
 Message 10 by anglagard, posted 05-07-2015 10:44 PM caffeine has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 48 days)
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 9 of 14 (671294)
08-24-2012 9:05 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by caffeine
08-24-2012 4:00 AM


Re: Exception to the Bullshit Rule
Should be easy to test.
Select a population of older men. Pair them at random with a set of one older and one younger wife.
Screw.
Breed.
Track the results.
Edited by jar, : fix sintax

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by caffeine, posted 08-24-2012 4:00 AM caffeine has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by coffee_addict, posted 05-08-2015 9:25 AM jar has not replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 270 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


(2)
Message 10 of 14 (757373)
05-07-2015 10:44 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by caffeine
08-24-2012 4:00 AM


Re: Exception to the Bullshit Rule
quote:
My father was 50 when he sired me and 54 when he sired my sister. My sister is a scientist at LANL. She is currently in charge of the world's most powerful microscope. I was 35 when I sired my daughter, she is a highest honor student college senior finishing a double BS degree in math and chemistry. As to me, I am the black sheep of the family, being only a college dean. Granted this is anecdotal evidence instead of 'science' but I still smell a rat.
caffiene writes:
Surely you realise that your personal account is not only anecdotal, but wholly irrelevant to the accuracy of this study.
Most people do not develop autism. If children born to older fathers have a slightly higher risk of autism, then this means that most children born to older fathers do not develop autism either. If we picked somebody with an older dad at random, they'd be more likely to not be autistic than to be autistic.
And yet I can't see any other reason for the rodent odour. What's so prima facie improbable about the idea?
I belatedly apologize for my irrational position in this matter. Anecdotal evidence should never be relied upon in a rational discourse. It was simply rage against the dying of the light.
You were right and I was wrong.

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by caffeine, posted 08-24-2012 4:00 AM caffeine has not replied

  
coffee_addict
Member
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 11 of 14 (757382)
05-08-2015 9:25 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by jar
08-24-2012 9:05 AM


Re: Exception to the Bullshit Rule
You volunteering?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by jar, posted 08-24-2012 9:05 AM jar has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9092
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 12 of 14 (757427)
05-08-2015 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Theodoric
08-23-2012 2:30 PM


There seem to be a lot of reasons behind the increase in autism diagnoses(vaccines not being one of them).
IMO, one of the leading reasons autism diagnoses have gone up is that the criteria for the diagnoses have broadened and awareness of the disease has risen.
Rising awareness may explain spike in autism diagnoses | Spectrum | Autism Research News
Adults are being diagnosed with the disease now. It's not as if they just developed autism. They have had it all their life, but they are only now being diagnosed with autism. What does that tell you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Theodoric, posted 08-23-2012 2:30 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by ramoss, posted 05-08-2015 6:40 PM Taq has not replied
 Message 14 by anglagard, posted 05-08-2015 9:24 PM Taq has not replied

  
ramoss
Member (Idle past 46 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 13 of 14 (757429)
05-08-2015 6:40 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Taq
05-08-2015 6:14 PM


I saw an article a number of years ago that looked at people who were elderly (i.e. over 80), and looked for autism among them. They found that the people who could be diagnosed with autism in the over 80 group was at the same percentage as the general population.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Taq, posted 05-08-2015 6:14 PM Taq has not replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 270 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


Message 14 of 14 (757440)
05-08-2015 9:24 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Taq
05-08-2015 6:14 PM


Redefinition of Autism
The increase in instances of Autism has more to do with changes in the English language than any other reason. Vaccination has obviously been ruled out as a cause, despite the certainty of ignorance combined with a general disrespect for science among too many in the USA. Environmental factors are a possibility, but it is difficult to ascertain any due to the background noise for a very simple reason.
When I was a child in the 1960s in Fresno, California, my mother used to do volunteer work at the home for the mentally retarded in a nearby town, Porterville. Today, the term mentally retarded is considered politically incorrect and anyone who may have been given such a diagnosis in the past is referred to as autistic. Recently, those who were lately diagnosed with Asperger's Syndrome suddenly became mildly autistic, despite the fact many weird yet highly intelligent people with this supposed condition are immensely productive geniuses. So I guess some of those with the highest IQs and those with the lowest are all suffering from the same condition - autism.
I figure at the rate the word is being redefined, pretty soon I will have autism and so will you. Great way to make a word become meaningless, but it happens all the time in a living language.
Edited by anglagard, : clarity

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Taq, posted 05-08-2015 6:14 PM Taq has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2022 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.1
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2022