Belief: Directive vs. Reflective

Directive Belief
A directive belief is a belief someone holds that describes how they should live their life. Reflective Belief
A reflective belief is a belief someone holds that describes how their life is lived.Example:
I believe in the Christian God.
Directive Belief: I believe in the Christian God, therefore I choose to read the Bible and follow it's instructions.
Reflective Belief: I choose to read the Bible and follow it's instructions, therefore I believe in the Chirstian God.Notice how in the Directive Belief, the Bible is being read in order to follow the rule of believing in God.
In the Reflective Belief, the Bible is being read because the reader wants to read the Bible. It is the result of this basic desire that leads the reader to believe in the Christian God. Most people have many different beliefs, and some will be Directive while others will be Reflective.It is my contention that Reflective beliefs are much more powerful. Your beliefs simply reflect the way you live. You can identify with and conform to your beliefs because that is how you choose to be in the first place. This makes the belief stronger and fuels a desire to continue along with the belief. The belief is more of a goal or aim from within rather than an external rule or command.Directive beliefs are generally unwilling to change. When you are attempting to follow a Directive belief that you do not accept, it can become extremely difficult. You will start doing things in order to gain acceptance for holding the belief instead of doing things because you actually accept the belief. This kind of mask is generally unhealthy and can lead to deep frustrations with the environment around you.I like to think that my beliefs about gods are Reflective, but I'm not always sure.
I do not rely on a god to get me up in the morning. I rely on my alarm clock.
I do not rely on a god to pay my bills. I go to work.
I do not rely on a god to keep me and my family safe. I educate myself and take precautions.
When I make an important decision such as where I should live or if I should keep my job or who I should marry I do not wait for an indication from a god. I devote time into the important task and make the decision after careful consideration.
I attempted to make this list a wide range of things including some trivial and some major aspects of my life.
Therefore, since I do not leave such things "in the hands" of any god... I think I am an atheist.What strikes me as odd is that I think most people do the same thing as I describe above.
I don't know anyone who relys on a god to wake them up in the morning so they don't use an alarm.
I don't know anyone who relys on a god to pay their bills so they don't work.
I don't know anyone who relys on a god to keep themselves or their family safe so they don't educate themselves and take precautions.
I don't know anyone who relys on a god for important decisions in their life so they don't devote any time and careful consideration into those tasks.
And yet... many people seem to say they do believe in a deeply personal and involved god.Is your belief about gods Reflective or Directive?
If you think your belief is Reflective, can you describe the parts of your life that reflect the belief?(Faith & Belief forum please, because that's where the money is!)Edited by Stile, : Corrected some confusing terminology - thanks jar

Thread copied here from the Belief: Directive vs. Reflective thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.

I'm not sure, but I think many theists would say that God keeps their alarm clock working. And if the alarm clock breaks, that was interference by Satan.

I think that the alarm is a bad example. There are people who don't really need alarms (I almost always wake up when I "need" to - or earlier - even if it's an unusual time). Someone might assume that God was doing that, even though it's nothing special.

I don't. But I know many people who would consider asking God to be a large part of the "careful consideration" part. In fact, I know people who only got married because they did, indeed, feel that God had blessed their union, and would not have gotten married otherwise.Now, I'm sure a lot of their feelings were internally motivated, but that doesn't lessen the fact that they believe they were essentially told to get married.

Well, atheism is something that is a matter of belief, not a matter of action. If you don't believe there is a god, you are an atheist; if you do believe there is a god, you're a theist. It doesn't matter how much weight you give to your belief (if any at all) when making decisionsbeliefs are beliefs; actions are actions. Again; it is perfectly possible to believe in a god while still acting independently. At the same time, I know many religious people who would credit God with all of the things you mention: God kept them living so they could wake up; God got them a job so they could pay their bills; God keeps their family safe by providing means to take precautions; God answers their prayers and tells them how to respond to important questions. Neither. I don't let my belief in God dictate how I live my life and I don't let how I live my life dictate my belief in God.Jon

I'm not sure... I mean, as I read through your OP I keep switching between the two. In one sense, I think my beliefs should lead to some guidlines on how I should live my life - so that seems kinda directive. On the other hand, I've come to my belief in god because of the experiences I've had - so that seems kinda reflective.I don't rely on god for my day-2-day activities, like you say. But too, I don't really believe in "a deeply personal and involved god". Does this count as reflective?: I made an awesome dinner and right as I sat down I thought about and thanked god for allowing me to be so lucky to have so much quality food....I like Jon's point that a belief is just that, a belief. Its not what actions you take.But unlike him, I do let my belief in god direct some of my actions. For example, if I think about god while passing a beggar, I'm more apt to give them some change.

I think that my actions are reflective but that my belief is a directive.

I think such a statement only tells us something about your thinking.So then you just haven't come across X ERGO X does not exist in your mind? Is this what you mean? (Argumentum Ad Ignorantiam).The "reflective versus directive", is a false dichotomy. I think it really is time you at least read SOMETHING about limited choice fallacies. Because you have a tendency to come up with two categories, and lump people into them. This seems to prove something to you, and have great significance to you, you make many topics where you have two groups.There are a number of popular limited-choice fallacies among the population. Here are some of them;"You're either scientific or religious."
"You're either atheist and smart or religious and dumb"
"You're either a bigot, or a liberal."
"You're either Slytherin or Gryffindor" You are a reflective, thoughtful thinker, but I think you assign too much significance to your own subjective human reason/observations. I don't have much against what you are doing but I can see that you are making mistakes in your thinking, and coming to conclusions that aren't true.That God has assigned us our own ability to decide things, autonomy for simple things, this DOES NOT preclude seeking God's will for important matters. I always do that, even if you, and I quote, "don't know anyone", who does.That's the problem, you don't know. Is ignorance a source of wisdom? Do you put salt on your chips, or vinegar?

I've just noticed by the dates that you resurrected this thread. I feel guilty now for my post to Stile, but it amazes me that most if not all of his topics seem to offer us a limited choice of options. I find it a strange thing to do. When people do this, it kind of PROVES that people tend to be small-minded, if they don't understand something, they will lump you into a nice category so that they can judged you to come under that category.That is the way stereotypes are created.

Keep in mind that those of us who know God (or believe that we do) God is an objective "still small voice" that we see as external (and thus objective) wisdom whereas for the other folks, it appears as if we are subjectively rationalizing our responses and beliefs...thus Stile uses logic the only way he knows how. He cant relate to the idea of God talking to him since he has never perceived it the way that you might. Personally, I think that Stile is quite logical...the only thing that trips me out about him is that he prefers to do the things himself that believers would allow Jesus to do for them.He is quite a polite chap, however. I can fully understand why he thinks the way that he does, and dont see him as inferior to me or needy in any way.IF God exists and exists the way that you and I believe, Stile will be just fine.He would say that IF not, that too is ok, but it would have serious repercussions for the mental health of you and I.

I know a lot of people who say, "God is leading us to... (do exactly what we wanted to do all along)." It's much rarer to find somebody who follows God's advice to do something they don't want to do.

Of course, it should also be pointed out that for all your whining you couldn't present a 3rd alternative.I don't present two alternatives because I think they are the only ones possible.
I only present them because they are the only two I know of. Feel free to submit another and we can discuss it.

Lets summarize this topic so far, shall we? Perhaps Mike is suggesting that there is a third option. Trust in the Lord (whom he believes is alive today) and allow God to influence your daily decisions and life. I suppose, however, that this would still be a reflective belief so perhaps there are only two options.

I think this shows ignorance of people that are genuinely born again Christians. Perhaps you are looking at individuals who are a part of Churchianity.If you watch Christian TV, or find testimonies from genuine Christians, "born again" for want of a better phrase, you will find God is asking them to do many things they don't want to do. But you have to know where to look, because even Christian TV can be 90% phoney. It's fair to say that atheists aren't going to be looking around for genuine examples, when in their own minds they have enough evidence to rule it all as "false".The chief thing our natural bodies want to do, is sin.This is the problem with relative perception, you are judging the matter from a lack of data, which is basically the following form: I see no evidence of P in people X, ergo not P.Perhaps to you it even seems like a conspicuous absence of evidence, in which case your argumentum ad ignorantiam argument (forgive the grammatical tautology) would become a logically sound argument of denying the consequent via the tollens, but the problem is the conspicuous absence isn't qualified, because you are looking in the wrong places.I hope you understand my point. It can be difficult to know what I am talking about if you are not me.