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Author
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Topic: Afghan Christian released
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1474 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 1 of 302 (298331)
03-26-2006 1:32 PM
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No doubt due to pressure from US Christians. My church has been praying for him.
AOL story earlier Reuters story.
earlier Voice of the Martyrs story March 23, 2006 The Voice of the Martyrs The ongoing trial in Kabul of Abdul Rahman, a 41-year-old Afghan Christian, reminds Americans that though Afghanistan has been freed from Taliban control, true freedom of worship does not exist there. He faces a possible death sentence for converting to Christianity. Rahman reportedly became a Christian 16 years ago while working with a Christian aid group in Pakistan. His conversion became public because of a custody dispute involving his two daughters. Recent media reports suggest that charges against Rahman may be dropped due to questions about his mental fitness for trial. VOM sources say that he has suffered from depression in the past. The mental issues may give the Afghan legal system a face-saving way out in a case that has drawn international attention and criticism. The new Constitution of Afghanistan proclaims that "followers of other religions (other than Islam) are free to exercise their faith and perform their religious rites within the limits of the provisions of law." But the same document declares that, "the religion of the state is the sacred religion of Islam," and that Sharia Law is the controlling legal authority. “In the United States, we talk about the separation of church and state,” said Todd Nettleton, Director of News Services for The Voice of the Martyrs. “But in an Islamic country there is no separation. Islam controls not just religion, but also politics, legal issues and all of life. And Islamic law simply does not allow a person to leave Islam and follow another faith.” This message has been edited by Faith, 03-26-2006 01:35 PM This message has been edited by Faith, 03-26-2006 01:40 PM
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jar
Member (Idle past 424 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 2 of 302 (298332)
03-26-2006 1:36 PM
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Reply to: Message 1 by Faith
03-26-2006 1:32 PM
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Good
Theocracies and religious laws are wrong regardless of whether it is Muslim Laws or Christian Laws.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by Faith, posted 03-26-2006 1:32 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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nator
Member (Idle past 2199 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: 12-09-2001
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Message 3 of 302 (298338)
03-26-2006 2:04 PM
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Reply to: Message 1 by Faith
03-26-2006 1:32 PM
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I wonder if the US is going to likewise release any of the numerous people being held in military prisons who's only crime seems to have been being a young Muslim male living in Iraq or Afghanistan?
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by Faith, posted 03-26-2006 1:32 PM | | Faith has not replied |
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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: 03-20-2003
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Message 4 of 302 (298346)
03-26-2006 3:10 PM
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Reply to: Message 1 by Faith
03-26-2006 1:32 PM
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So, this is the model democracy we were supposed to be establishing in a Muslim country, the democracy that was going to turn a rogue state theocracy into a bastion of freedom? The democracy that was going to be the model for Iraq? Good one, on that. Way to go Republicans. Glad to hear it worked out for this guy but imagine how we never would have heard about it if it had been anyone but a Christian. It would have been full media blackout if the guy had become an atheist.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by Faith, posted 03-26-2006 1:32 PM | | Faith has replied |
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Chiroptera
Inactive Member
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Message 5 of 302 (298348)
03-26-2006 3:16 PM
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Reply to: Message 4 by crashfrog
03-26-2006 3:10 PM
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And of course it should also be pointed out that as this was action was not the result of institutional safeguards protecting the rights of an unpopular minority, but rather the result of international pressure on behalf of an individual in one particular case, we cannot even call this a victory for "democracy".
"Religion is the best business to be in. It's the only one where the customers blame themselves for product failure." -- Ellis Weiner (quoted on the NAiG message board)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 4 by crashfrog, posted 03-26-2006 3:10 PM | | crashfrog has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 24 by Faith, posted 03-26-2006 8:53 PM | | Chiroptera has replied |
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Silent H
Member (Idle past 5849 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: 12-11-2002
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Message 6 of 302 (298349)
03-26-2006 3:19 PM
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Reply to: Message 4 by crashfrog
03-26-2006 3:10 PM
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...if the guy had become an atheist.
Not to mention been found to be gay, or an adulterer, or a woman that had an abortion. It'll be interesting indeed when they go to execute anyone at all and most of the rest of the world, and that would include almost the entire coalition EXCEPT the US, demands they shouldn't kill anyone because that's not what THEY were fighting to create. Bet that gets shoved to the side by US pressure, for the sake of allowing Afghans to decide what they want for themselves. Looks to me like we're now going to try and micromanage another culture so that it can be just like us, I mean like US.
holmes "What you need is sustained outrage...there's far too much unthinking respect given to authority." (M.Ivins)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 4 by crashfrog, posted 03-26-2006 3:10 PM | | crashfrog has not replied |
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Chronos
Member (Idle past 6255 days) Posts: 102 From: Macomb, Mi, USA Joined: 10-23-2005
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Message 7 of 302 (298350)
03-26-2006 3:23 PM
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I'm glad he was released. Too bad Afghanistan is in shambles. Maybe 500 years from now they'll be able to look back and see how much good religious zeal did them. Lord knows they ain't payin' attention to the history books.
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Silent H
Member (Idle past 5849 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: 12-11-2002
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Message 8 of 302 (298351)
03-26-2006 3:28 PM
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Reply to: Message 1 by Faith
03-26-2006 1:32 PM
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Perhaps this is cynical, but if he had been anything other than a Xian would you have cared? What line would it have been acceptable for them to have killed him? Why? On a similar issue, are you for preventing gay or polygamous marriages and thus prevent others from leaving mainstream Xianity to follow/practice another faith?
holmes "Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." (Lovecraft)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 1 by Faith, posted 03-26-2006 1:32 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 25 by Faith, posted 03-26-2006 8:59 PM | | Silent H has replied |
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Silent H
Member (Idle past 5849 days) Posts: 7405 From: satellite of love Joined: 12-11-2002
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Message 9 of 302 (298352)
03-26-2006 3:33 PM
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Reply to: Message 7 by Chronos
03-26-2006 3:23 PM
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Lord knows they ain't payin' attention to the history books.
That's right, them ignr'nt darkies did it to themselves. Its not like they were made pawns in a Great Game, where even up through 2001 religious zealots were being encouraged and coddled by western powers, boosted over moderate elements because it suited western national and business interests. Naw couldn't be that. Maybe people in the US ought to start paying attention to history books, before setting national policy to "improve" other cultures/nations. This message has been edited by holmes, 03-26-2006 09:34 PM
holmes "Some day the piecing together of dissociated knowledge will open up such terrifying vistas of reality, and of our frightful position therein, that we shall either go mad from the revelation or flee from the light into the peace and safety of a new dark age." (Lovecraft)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 7 by Chronos, posted 03-26-2006 3:23 PM | | Chronos has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 11 by Chronos, posted 03-26-2006 3:51 PM | | Silent H has replied |
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Chiroptera
Inactive Member
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Message 10 of 302 (298353)
03-26-2006 3:40 PM
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Reply to: Message 7 by Chronos
03-26-2006 3:23 PM
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quote:
Maybe 500 years from now they'll be able to look back and see how much good religious zeal did them.
I dunno. What if in 500 years Afghanis look back to this time and agree that the intolerance and executions of relgious dissidents was regrettable, but that it was part of an over-all process of social unification that allowed them to throw out foreign invaders, establish their sovereignty, and eventually allowed democracy and tolerance to flourish?
"Religion is the best business to be in. It's the only one where the customers blame themselves for product failure." -- Ellis Weiner (quoted on the NAiG message board)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 7 by Chronos, posted 03-26-2006 3:23 PM | | Chronos has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 12 by Chronos, posted 03-26-2006 3:57 PM | | Chiroptera has replied |
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Chronos
Member (Idle past 6255 days) Posts: 102 From: Macomb, Mi, USA Joined: 10-23-2005
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Message 11 of 302 (298354)
03-26-2006 3:51 PM
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Reply to: Message 9 by Silent H
03-26-2006 3:33 PM
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That's right, them ignr'nt darkies did it to themselves. Do you agree that regardless of why Islamic extremists exist in such large numbers, they aren't doing the world a whole lot of good?
Its not like they were made pawns in a Great Game, where even up through 2001 religious zealots were being encouraged and coddled by western powers, boosted over moderate elements because it suited western national and business interests. Naw couldn't be that. How do western nations and companies benefit from encouraging those with an agenda against us? (There may be a sensible answer, I just don't know it)
Maybe people in the US ought to start paying attention to history books, before setting national policy to "improve" other cultures/nations. Agreed
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 9 by Silent H, posted 03-26-2006 3:33 PM | | Silent H has replied |
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Chronos
Member (Idle past 6255 days) Posts: 102 From: Macomb, Mi, USA Joined: 10-23-2005
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I dunno. What if in 500 years Afghanis look back to this time and agree that the intolerance and executions of relgious dissidents was regrettable, but that it was part of an over-all process of social unification that allowed them to throw out foreign invaders, establish their sovereignty, and eventually allowed democracy and tolerance to flourish? Then they'd have followed a similar path to the U.S. However, I don't see how executing dissidents brings them anywhere closer to a democrracy.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 10 by Chiroptera, posted 03-26-2006 3:40 PM | | Chiroptera has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 15 by Chiroptera, posted 03-26-2006 4:08 PM | | Chronos has not replied |
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Chiroptera
Inactive Member
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Message 13 of 302 (298358)
03-26-2006 4:00 PM
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Reply to: Message 11 by Chronos
03-26-2006 3:51 PM
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quote:
How do western nations and companies benefit from encouraging those with an agenda against us?
Well, in the specific case of Afghanistan, it tied down the Soviet military for a number of years, led to international condemnation of the Soviet Union, demoralization within the Soviet army, and increased the disillusionment of Soviet citizens with the Soviet government. I can't see how this could be seen as anything but a benefit, and intentional as well.
"Religion is the best business to be in. It's the only one where the customers blame themselves for product failure." -- Ellis Weiner (quoted on the NAiG message board)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 11 by Chronos, posted 03-26-2006 3:51 PM | | Chronos has not replied |
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 764 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: 11-12-2002
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Message 14 of 302 (298360)
03-26-2006 4:05 PM
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Reply to: Message 11 by Chronos
03-26-2006 3:51 PM
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How do western nations and companies benefit from encouraging those with an agenda against us? (There may be a sensible answer, I just don't know it)
You might want to ask Reagan and GHW Bush that question - they supported the Taliban-esque Afgans in their fight against the USSR, and gave them all those weapons. The enemy of my enemy doesn't have to be my friend, old aphorisms say what they will.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 11 by Chronos, posted 03-26-2006 3:51 PM | | Chronos has not replied |
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Chiroptera
Inactive Member
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Message 15 of 302 (298361)
03-26-2006 4:08 PM
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Reply to: Message 12 by Chronos
03-26-2006 3:57 PM
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quote:
However, I don't see how executing dissidents brings them anywhere closer to a democrracy.
The same way that tar and feathering loyal British subjects in the North American colonies brought what would become the United States closer to democracy. It didn't. But it was a perhaps inevitable symptom of the social and political currents that led to the American colonists to see themselves as different from the British, and to throw off British rule and be allowed to develop their society independent of outside interference. Democracy and freedom will not be possible in Afghanistan while they are under control of the imperialist West. Afghanistan will only become a true democracy if it is allowed to develop it on its own terms, which means achieving independence from the West. I am merely suggesting the possibility that this extreme form of Islam might be one facet of an over-all social movement might be necessary for Afghanistan to achieve the sovereignty necessary for democracy to flourish. Extremism should be condemned, but condemning it without understanding the social and historical context in which it lies will do little to improve matters and may, in fact, make them worse.
"Religion is the best business to be in. It's the only one where the customers blame themselves for product failure." -- Ellis Weiner (quoted on the NAiG message board)
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 12 by Chronos, posted 03-26-2006 3:57 PM | | Chronos has not replied |
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