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Author | Topic: Evidence for the Cucurbit family as a kind? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4929 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
Apparently, a cantelope and a cucumber have crossed for a new Cucurbit. Is this evidence the Cucurbit family is one kind?
shortened link Note for admins: This is posted for interest as much as debate. Obviously, evos say this is evidence of a common ancestor. That is what YECers say too, except they say the common ancestor is a kind. It's interesting that such different shapes and texture can be produced from different vegetables (or is this a fruit?). Also, note:
"In the first generation, they'll cross and you'll get an unusual fruit," Joffrion said. The firm flesh inside is yellow and somewhat sweet but has a flavor more like cucumber than cantaloupe, Tim Dusenbery said. The Dusenberys said they are saving the seeds and hope to get more next year. However, Joffrion said a crossbred plant usually reverts back to one of its original forms in subsequent generations. "It'll be interesting to see what it does revert to," Joffrion said. This reverting back is interesting. That strikes me as a conservative, anti-evo mechanism or process that hinders new species developing. Maybe JAD is right, and that once species contained the inherent ability to breed many different forms, but that they have run their course. Certainly, we see here the ability initially to breed a whole new fruit?, but the process tends to revert backwards. Edited by randman, : No reason given. Edited by AdminJar, : shorten link
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AdminNosy Administrator Posts: 4754 From: Vancouver, BC, Canada Joined: |
Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
It's interesting that such different shapes and texture can be produced from different vegetables (or is this a fruit?). Both cucumbers and cantelopes are fruit, containing as they do seeds.
This reverting back is interesting. In polyploid organisms? What, they never did Purnett squares in your high school biology? It's not that weird. It's not an emerging "anti-evo mechanism." It's a natural consequence of organisms having multiple copies of each of their chromosomes - a fact known since Mendel's time.
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 765 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
This reverting back is interesting. That strikes me as a conservative, anti-evo mechanism or process that hinders new species developing.
Hmm. It strikes me as a classic bit of Mendelian genetics. And I just can't see pickling a canteloupe and eating it on my hamburger, anyway.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
And I just can't see pickling a canteloupe and eating it on my hamburger, anyway. I thought they were all up into melon pickles and stuff down in Texas.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4929 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
Hmm. It strikes me as a classic bit of Mendelian genetics. Yea, which is why a scientist like JAD and his sources say that Mendelian genetics demonstrates that DNA cannot be the source of evolutionary development outside of producing varities.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
Yea, which is why a scientist like JAD and his sources say that Mendelian genetics demonstrates that DNA cannot be the source of evolutionary development outside of producing varities. His sources don't actually say that, despite what he says. He's out on his own in regards to his position - there's no experimental or observational support whatsoever. DNA is no obstacle to evolution. Sexual reproduction in diploid organisms is no obstacle to reproduction. The reversion to wild-type effect you find so significant is fairly easily overcome by simple selection in the F2 generations. Reversion doesn't affect all individuals, which is trivially demonstrated in Mendelian genetics.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4929 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
Well, no one refuted him. That suggests to me his sources do say what he says.
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ramoss Member (Idle past 642 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
Well, anytime someone trys to ask him specific questions about his hypothesis, he gets defesnive and evades, or goes into a rant against someone.
It is hard to refute someone who doesn't actually PRESENT anything.
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randman  Suspended Member (Idle past 4929 days) Posts: 6367 Joined: |
He's published his ideas. He presents as much as other evos do, imo. He shows the inadequacy of current evo models and hypothesizes that previous creatures originally had the capacity for much greater variety and could produce different species via normal reproduction via chromosomal rearrangements.
But this thread is not really the one to discuss it. I just noted that he went nearly unchallenged by evos. That fact was quite informative.
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AdminNWR Inactive Member |
This has drifted way off topic. This is not the place to discuss JAD's hypothesis.
Any comments on this warning should be in the moderation thread. To comment on moderation procedures or respond to admin messages:
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
deleted
Edited by crashfrog, : Off-topic.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1497 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
I just noted that he went nearly unchallenged by evos. Because we already refuted it, almost 3 years ago. Here's the thread:
EvC Forum: What is Salty's 'semi-meiotic hypothesis' I don't understand why you think we're required to reinvent the wheel just because you didn't see us do it the first time. If there's anything in that thread you feel was missed then I invite you to petition that it be opened (or open it yourself, I guess.)
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