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Author Topic:   Does Eve know God more than Adam?
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 1 of 63 (451325)
01-27-2008 9:24 AM


Does Eve know God more than Adam?
Genesis tells us that to know good and evil is to know God.
To be as Gods, knowing good and evil.
Since Eve received the first lesson, does this mean that she learned faster than Adam?
Could this be why today, there are more men studying religion than women?
Men rule the world and make it an ugly place. Would women, because they know more of God than men, do a better job of ruling?
Is it just because we are physically stronger than women, that we rule or is it women that have not exercised their greater wisdom and taken control?
In one sense we are all trained by women, at least when young children. Why do they stop teaching us?
Would it be better if they did not stop or is it a case of them not doing a good job with the young and reaping the ugly result later?
I am rather confused by the whole thing and need enlightenment.
Who is closer to God?
Who should lead?
Who is better suited to lead?
Do men have more to learn and is this why most posters and searchers here are men?
Regards
DL

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Phat, posted 01-27-2008 1:02 PM Greatest I am has replied
 Message 7 by jaywill, posted 01-29-2008 6:48 PM Greatest I am has replied
 Message 51 by IamJoseph, posted 02-23-2008 6:42 AM Greatest I am has not replied
 Message 60 by pelican, posted 03-12-2008 9:12 AM Greatest I am has replied

  
AdminNosy
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From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 2 of 63 (451326)
01-27-2008 9:30 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 3 of 63 (451359)
01-27-2008 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
01-27-2008 9:24 AM


Unanswerable Questions
GIA writes:
Does Eve know God more than Adam?
Phat writes:
Assuming they were real people, a question like this is similar to asking if George Washington preferred cream in his coffee. We simply don't know.
Genesis tells us that to know good and evil is to know God.
Phat writes:
No...Genesis symbolism tells us that we will know as much as God knows...which is in my opinion preposterous. A million years of evolution wouldn't even get us to know a fraction of what God knows, at least IMB.
Men rule the world and make it an ugly place. Would women, because they know more of God than men, do a better job of ruling?
Phat writes:
Maybe. I wouldn't say better...just different. Plus you are already assuming that women know God better than men. Thats quite a presupposition and jump in logic!
In one sense we are all trained by women, at least when young children. Why do they stop teaching us?
Phat writes:
Because it has traditionally been a male dominated society. The smarter guys allow the women to continue to teach them, however.
I am rather confused by the whole thing and need enlightenment.
Well why are you asking your fellow humans? Do you really think we have it figured out any better than you do?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Greatest I am, posted 01-27-2008 9:24 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Greatest I am, posted 01-27-2008 1:41 PM Phat has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 4 of 63 (451370)
01-27-2008 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Phat
01-27-2008 1:02 PM


Re: Unanswerable Questions
I was hoping someone did.
You assume that women are not closer to God than we are. Why then do they not seek as hard as men.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Phat, posted 01-27-2008 1:02 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Phat, posted 01-27-2008 4:36 PM Greatest I am has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 5 of 63 (451416)
01-27-2008 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Greatest I am
01-27-2008 1:41 PM


Re: Unanswerable Questions
GIA writes:
You assume that women are not closer to God than we are. Why then do they not seek as hard as men.
I didn't say closer and I didn't say further.(from God) What makes you think any differently?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Greatest I am, posted 01-27-2008 1:41 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Greatest I am, posted 01-27-2008 5:09 PM Phat has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 6 of 63 (451428)
01-27-2008 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Phat
01-27-2008 4:36 PM


Re: Unanswerable Questions
Just the fact that we usually seek what we do not have.
Men seek what they lack. Woman does not seek what she has.
Sounds logical to me.
regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Phat, posted 01-27-2008 4:36 PM Phat has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 7 of 63 (452222)
01-29-2008 6:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
01-27-2008 9:24 AM


Genesis tells us that to know good and evil is to know God.
Could you point out to me the passage or verse that this assumption is based on?
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Greatest I am, posted 01-27-2008 9:24 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Greatest I am, posted 01-30-2008 12:03 PM jaywill has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 8 of 63 (452448)
01-30-2008 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by jaywill
01-29-2008 6:48 PM


Genesis 3-22 but you may want to read all of Genesis.
If you cannot or do not understand the beginning then it is hard to get the rest straight.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by jaywill, posted 01-29-2008 6:48 PM jaywill has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-30-2008 3:16 PM Greatest I am has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 63 (452501)
01-30-2008 3:16 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Greatest I am
01-30-2008 12:03 PM


Genesis 3-22
It says that they became like gods, not equal to them.
That's the difference between a simile and a metaphore...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Greatest I am, posted 01-30-2008 12:03 PM Greatest I am has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by jaywill, posted 01-31-2008 3:36 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 10 of 63 (452706)
01-31-2008 3:36 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by New Cat's Eye
01-30-2008 3:16 PM


It says that they became like gods, not equal to them.
Thanks. But I really don't know if I should accept your answer as the answer of "GreatestIam" whom I asked.
The question was from what passage does s/he derive the assumption that to know good and evil is to know God.
You have replied with a verse that where God says that the couple have become like God knowing good and evil.
I think could still be distinct from knowing God Himself. They obtain some ability "like God". Doesn't necessarily mean that by this they now know God. Does it?
The passage Genesis 3:22 involves God expelling man from the garden. In the rest of the Bible do we see God expelling the ones who come to know God? I think it is more the case that the ones from whom God distances Himself are those who do NOT know God.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-30-2008 3:16 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Greatest I am, posted 01-31-2008 7:14 AM jaywill has replied
 Message 12 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-31-2008 10:55 AM jaywill has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 11 of 63 (452717)
01-31-2008 7:14 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by jaywill
01-31-2008 3:36 AM


If God is everywhere then He cannot distance himself from us.
As to knowing good and evil, God creates our souls and natures perfect for His needs. All get to heaven so all will at some point in time know all that is required.
If we are all to become as Gods then we know we will not be identical. We all evolve at different rates.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by jaywill, posted 01-31-2008 3:36 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by jaywill, posted 02-01-2008 9:22 AM Greatest I am has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 63 (452796)
01-31-2008 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by jaywill
01-31-2008 3:36 AM


I've seen people use Gen3:22 to make the claim that after we ate the fruit, we became equivalent to gods.
I just wanted to make sure that that isn't what was being claimed.
GIA in msg 11 writes:
If we are all to become as Gods then we know we will not be identical.
It seems he is not making the claim, so carry on...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by jaywill, posted 01-31-2008 3:36 AM jaywill has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 13 of 63 (453037)
02-01-2008 9:22 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Greatest I am
01-31-2008 7:14 AM


If God is everywhere then He cannot distance himself from us.
Yes He can. And in the record of the Bible many times He did.
In Jeremiah God says "And I will bring him near, and he will approach Me. For who else would be bold enough to approach Me? declares Jehovah." (Jer. 30:21)
Appaently, God being omnipresent does not negate the need for us to draw near to Him or for Him to cause us to come near to Him.
"Return, thou backsliding Israel ..." (Jer. 3:12)
Many such exhortations from God for His people to return to Him prove that we can be away in heart from the omnipresent God.
Am I right? See also Jeremiah 4:1. And what about Malachi 3:7 - "Return unto Me and I will return unto you..."?
Here God and man need to return to each other. His omnipresence does not mean that we cannot be away from Him or He from us in some important sense of the heart.
As to knowing good and evil, God creates our souls and natures perfect for His needs. All get to heaven so all will at some point in time know all that is required.
What passages would you point to to demonstrate:
1.) ANY "get to heaven"
2.) "ALL" "get to heaven"
If we are all to become as Gods then we know we will not be identical. We all evolve at different rates.
I'd like to reserve comment on Genesis chapter 3 until I get a better picture of how you would answer the above questions.
Thanks
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Greatest I am, posted 01-31-2008 7:14 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Greatest I am, posted 02-01-2008 9:41 AM jaywill has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 14 of 63 (453038)
02-01-2008 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by jaywill
02-01-2008 9:22 AM


Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
We are all His works. All perfect.
I do not read the Bible literally but this has to be a logical attribute to give God.
If we do not then it would mean that the God followed is imperfect and does imperfect works.
If we are all created imperfect then God would be the one to blame for any and all evil things that we do.
If we have free will then we must take responsibility for our own actions.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by jaywill, posted 02-01-2008 9:22 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by jaywill, posted 02-01-2008 10:27 AM Greatest I am has replied
 Message 16 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-01-2008 10:47 AM Greatest I am has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1942 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 15 of 63 (453055)
02-01-2008 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Greatest I am
02-01-2008 9:41 AM


Deuteronomy 32:4
He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.
We are all His works. All perfect.
It is good to reference what the Bible says.
But if you cherry pick those passages only which reinforce what you hold as pre-conceived beliefs, aren't you concerned that you will get a skewed picture of God?
I don't think many people begin by accepting everything they read in the Bible. But to start to receive utterances is a beginning. I think it is good to muse on what God has said. Then continue to muse on what ELSE God has said.
I do not read the Bible literally but this has to be a logical attribute to give God.
I let the Bible guide my logic. I learn what the Bible has said. Then I continue to learn what ELSE the Bible has said.
I recommend this growth and gradual enlargement of acceptance for the best all-inclusive and well balanced, well rounded revelation of God and His ways.
The very book you are quoting, Deuteronomy, has much to reveal about God's interaction with Moses, Aaron, and Israel that needs to be contemplated as well as His being the Rock whos work is perfect.
Have you considered the OTHER things which the book of Deuteronomy adds to that revelation of God?
If we do not then it would mean that the God followed is imperfect and does imperfect works.
I don't like to go selectively through cherry picking only those passages which reinforce my favorite ideas about this God.
I enjoy reading that which rubs my fur the wrong way, so to speak. For a well rounded and balanced diet of all the truths that I need about God, I try to "Amen" all its passages.
I wish you would open up and consider that what else the Bible says is also important. We can be made large enough to embrace even paradoxical attributes of God as long as we draw near to know Him in the Holy Spirit.
If we are all created imperfect then God would be the one to blame for any and all evil things that we do.
If we have free will then we must take responsibility for our own actions.
It would be enough right now, if I could encourage you to open up and allow all that is spoken in the Word of God to find a place in your concept.
My experience is that I NEED those truths also, that seem to be not my favorite ones.
If you get on a "one-liner" your trajectory will be off. And you will arrive at some strange and even heretical teachings.
I suggest you try to prayerfully say "Amen" to all that the Bible says for one week. Just try for one week to utter "Amen" in agreement to all that you read in this book without picking and choosing your pet attriubutes of God.
The result will be you will understand more and deeper the Bible and have greater joy in doing so.
If not then you'll have to say all you want to know is Deuteronomy 32:4. You stop there. That far and no farther. I think that will be a loss to you.
Consider also Jeremiah 18:1-6
Can we embrace both revelations?
The word which came to Jeremiah from Jehovah, saying,
Arise and go down to the potter's house, and there I will let you hear My words.
So I went down to the potter's house, and he was there doing work at his wheel.
But the vessel that he was making of clay was spoiled in the potter's hand; so he reworked it into another vessel, as it seemed good for the potter to make.
And the word of Jehovah came to me,saying.
Am I not able to do with you, O house of Israel, as this potter does? declares Jehovah. Indeed, as the clay is in the hand of the potter, so you are in My hand, O house of Israel."
Don't you want to be enlarged by God to be able to embrace both revelations of Deut. 32:4 and Jeremiah 18:1-6?
I do. I need both truths in order to live unto God.
"Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out from the mouth of God." - Jesus quoting Deuteronomy
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Greatest I am, posted 02-01-2008 9:41 AM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Greatest I am, posted 02-01-2008 11:26 AM jaywill has replied

  
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