God is good and evil

If i say that god is Omniscient do u agree?
If i say that god is Omnipotent do u agree?
If i say that god is Omnipresent do u agree?ok then where is the devil?

some more questions for all you bible litralists:How can something be good for God that is evil for us, when God is good? i.e. God has a reason for everything that means he had a reason for the nuclear bombs and the mass deaths of the Japanese etc etc. Was that not evil? Did God have a reason for it? If not then how can God be Omniscient? If he did not want it to happen why did he let it happen? If God is good for us, how can it be what is good for God is evil for us. That would make evil good for us?Did God create evil? He certainly set the boundaries for right and wrong, He defined it. How can something exist if God did not create it? Didn’t God create everything? That’s why He is all powerful isn’t? If he didn’t create something that means he doesn’t control it how can He be all powerful then? Omnipotent? If God created freewill, and from freewill came evil, then God created us with the capacity for something that didn’t exist unless God created it. If He did not create everything then He is not all powerful (omnipotent), all knowing (omniscient) or everywhere (omnipresent).If God is everywhere and is totally good then where is evil? If God is everywhere then evil must at least be made out of God otherwise he’s not everywhere! If God created evil then God is both evil and good just like human! And aren’t humans created in His image?

Aren't you confusing everywhere with everything? According to your logic, though I would call it illogic, because God is everywhere everybody is God. Think about it, "God is evil cos God is everywhere" isn't entirely coherent. If God was everything he would be evil - but he isn't everything. For example - he isn't me.Personally, I don't think God created evil, I will return later to divulge. I'm back, Even if God is everywhere as far as we can understand it, him being aware of all things, we see from the Bible that his actual presence, in his form - cannot abide sin. I am not sure the Bible makes out God as omnipresent but I am certain he is aware of all things. When in Leviticus he is about to come down to the people they have to thoroughly clean themselves of all sin and make sacrifices "lest they die" So it appears that when God's true presence or form is in one place he cannot abide sin or evil.As for your comment about him creating evil. Ok, I have a whole philisophical opinion about this,Lol. I think, that with minds comes an awareness - naturally, of all wrongs. This however is only the case with minds of a certain intelligence. An animal like a cat, does not know whether it is right or wrong to kill the mouse, all it knows is that it is hungry. Now, with minds of intelligence the possibility of evil starts at the mind. But only the possibility. For example, there is an obvious difference between going out and killing someone or only thinking of going out and killing someone.So, the mind of intelligence automatically is able to know the right and wrong. Example: You ask a mechanic to fix your wheel. The mechanic knows how to fix that wheel, yet if he is intelligent enough to know how to fix the wheel he is also able to do it wrongly. So, he knows that to attatch the wheel to the ground would not be to fix it. Or to adjust the wheel a tad in the wrong direction - is well, wrong. That does not mean because he has thought of any wrong/evil he is responsible for it. Now, if devil/satan is also a mind then we run the risk of him knowing that there is a possibility of wrong/evil. As we understand this, many Angels are obviously fine. They know the right/wrong but they don't do this.Unfortunately satan took the step of going against God and preferring his own path and evil. So, despite the intelligent mind having the possibility of evil this seems the only way with an intelligent mind. It seems to me that the total free will and choice of the mind makes too many possibilities for wrongs to not be possible. I could be totally wrong - but I thought I would offer an opinionated rant. Think about it though, with a mind of choice instead of a mindless biological robot this would obviously include and relate to the Adam and Eve situation.[This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 02-27-2004]

No, Mike, i am not confusing everything with everything! I never said God was totally evil, like u would have ppl believe, and i am speaking coherently, u failed to answer my first post y? was it because u couldnt? If God is those things, then a) Everything is part of God because God created everything - like a painter painting a picture, the picture is not part of him in any physical way, but he bore the idea, the inspiration, the concept of his, the painting is part of him in a deeper way, he created it; or if u want another analogy parent and child, the child is part of the parents 4 ever, as is the parent part of the child, they leave imprints on each other, change each other. If God is the ALL MIGHTY FATHER, then He has to be both of the human concepts "evil" and "good", as nothing can exist that did not originate from Him! Otherwise how can ne1 say with a straight face that God is ALL POWERFUL?! ALL: Everything, Everywhere, all knowing, MIGHTY: the grandest, biggest + smallest, highest, best etc, FATHER: in the sense of paternity, as the child originates from it parents, origin, begining/end.
Why is it so hard for u to c that "evil" and "good" are human concepts?! Do we not learn from "bad/evil/ occurances and even mistakes? Would not god use everything He possible could to teach, educate, evolve his ppl, his creations, to be the very best they could be, to teach them about themselves, about the world, others, and Himself through all events?
Minds of intelligence are only able to have preconceived notions of right and wrong because if u take the bible literally Adam and Eve ate of the Tree of knowledge. Off the topic 4 a moment; Adam had already been given the knowledge of good and evil before he ate from the tree! When God told him not to eat from the tree, Adam would have know that to go against Gods word would be "Evil"! Why did an all loving God who already gave Adam the knowledge kick him and Eve out of the garden ... if u r taking the bible literally?
U said that a mechanic may have evil thoughts but might not carry through with them, does not the bible say: Romans 13:9, Matthew 15:19 and Proverbs 30:32 that to think an evil thought is as bad as doing the evil thought?
By your logic a person who is born with/ or developes a mental condition by which they can no longer know what is right and wrong, although born with this "preconceived knowledge of morallity" is evil if they kill someone? How is it there fault if they do not have the cognitive power that ppl sopposedly have of morality when they are born? Or do u believe that they got ill because a demon inhabited there body/soul and caused the illness of mind ... against all medical science?
Ne way sorry for the tone of my writing, i didnt mean to sound contrasending.

The only good point and refutation you made was this: Ofcourse, we all have evil thoughts. Are you talking about when Jesus says something similar to " if you even think adultery you have done it in your heart ". Ofcourse, that kind of blows my theory a bit. I should have remembered that teaching but I was on a rant. So then, how can I be saved from all these things - all my bad thoughts etc?I do think you are confusing everything with everywhere. Some of the things you say do not seem to relate to your argument logically. If we are all sinful because we have even thought bad things - that is our fault, not God's. Remember, it was satan who chose to have evil thoughts against God.As for the painting analogy. Are you saying Van Gogh is made out of oil paint and that he still hangs on walls to this day?Let's just say that God = apple, physical evil acts = ball.Let us pretend that only the ball is a production of space/time matter. If the apple is everywhere it does not mean it is the ball. The ball remains a ball unless the apple is everything. If the apple is not a part of space/time and is and/or unseen, it can be everywhere yet it it is seemingly nothing. It is an all powerful unseen force which is everywhere yet it at no time is a ball. Infact - the apple can remain independent from the ball because it consists not of any ball parts. Therefore if the ball starts rolling and destructing space/time/matter humans, then infact it is because of the ball only, the apple is not space/time fabric. So if apple = God, and ball = evil, how is God's omnipresence related to the ball, or how is the apple causing the ball's destruction of things by merely watching if you like, the guilty ball? No, because he/she was born without the knowledge of right and wrong or has lost the ability to discern. So - like the animal, the person will become more innocent even. Infact I don't see how you can put those words in my mouth.[This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 03-01-2004]

C.God has, many believe, described Himself in Scripture, where He says that He is a shepherd, a counselor, a father. A friend, a comforter, a guide, a creator, love, wisdom. All powerful? Present everywhere? All knowing? He never presents Himself that way, beyond saying that nothing is impossible with Him, or with you and I if we believe. That He can be reached from anywhere.The last guy that talked about God, instead of with God, was Job. You want those kinds of problems? Keep it up. Ask Him what you want to know about Him, with a listening ear. Ask until you hear. Get it from the horse's mouth, because if you don't, I can guarentee what you think up on your own will be from the horse's other end.Stephen

I like atheists, probably have more atheist/agnostic friends than Christian friends. But this kind of 'pity us' arguement is getting on my nerves:"How can something be good for God that is evil for us, when God is good? i.e. God has a reason for everything that means he had a reason for the nuclear bombs and the mass deaths of the Japanese etc etc. Was that not evil? Did God have a reason for it? If not then how can God be Omniscient?"Cry me a river, build me a bridge, and get over it! I see lots of people pulling this number.Look, God allows free will, in other words he lets us do our thing. He might step in every now and then, but if He did control every major event on earth there wouldn't be much of free will. When you have a child, you must eventually allow them to go off on their own or else they will never be independent. We can't be blindly Christian-happy clones. Where's the fun in that?Basically, anybody who says 'God is a crutch' needs a reality check, because He's not always going to step in and save you.More complaining:"Did God create evil? He certainly set the boundaries for right and wrong, He defined it."He created Satan; I'd say He basically did."How can something exist if God did not create it?"He made us in His image that we can make stuff, too. I'll get back to that at the end."Didn’t God create everything?"When it comes down to it, no. He made creations, His creations made stuff. Did He plan on the creation's creations? Who knows."That’s why He is all powerful isn’t? If he didn’t create something that means he doesn’t control it how can He be all powerful then? "I didn't make this computer, yet I can make it do things. However, to answer the next question there are many things this computer can be controlled to do that I don't make it do."If God created freewill, and from freewill came evil, then God created us with the capacity for something that didn’t exist unless God created it."I figure He created the concept of evil then allowed us to make our own decision."If He did not create everything then He is not all powerful (omnipotent), all knowing (omniscient) or everywhere (omnipresent). "How so? If He can create things that create things he's pretty powerful. Just because he didn't make things doesn't mean He couldn't have. If He created the concept of Good and Evil and such He's all knowing. If He sees all, He's everywhere. Somebody else already said you confuse everywhere with everyhing. I agree."If God created evil then God is both evil and good just like human! And aren’t humans created in His image?"If I create a dog out of clay, I am not the dog, am I? We're created in His image because we can make stuff; at least that's what I've always figured. Any more questions?[This message has been edited by Born2Preach, 03-21-2004]

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Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit.

How does evil increase free will? If somebody murders me, how does that do anything but eliminate all the freedom to choose I would have had if I had lived?How does the murder's one choice (to pull the trigger) outweigh all the choices I would have gotten to make?The existence of evil doesn't preserve or increase free will. Evil reduces free will. There's still an infinite number of ways to do the right thing. God doesn't have to control all of our actions to prevent evil - he just has to prevent evil actions.

There's more than that one type of evil, however I will acknowledge that's probably the most universally recognized one. But really, to have absolute free will you can't have your actions prevented at all. If someone's got Parental Controls on their screen name, it will prevent them from going to sites that people shouldn't be going to anyway, but it will also prevent other, good sites that would otherwise be accessable. Hopefully that illustrates the point.

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Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit.

Which is exactly what evil does, especially murder. It prevents all future actions of the victim. No. If parental control is so bad, why do parents use it? If it's so good that parents should use it, why doesn't God?God is a shitty parent.

"Which is exactly what evil does, especially murder. It prevents all future actions of the victim."This statement is false. If I kick a man in the shin for no apparent reason then dash away giggling, it won't hinder his future actions by more than a few seconds. Hence, ALL future actions of the victim were not prevented.It's true that murder, if successful, will halt all future actions of the victim, but that isn't the only type of evil and attempted murder(I assume we agree) is evil even though it doesn't succeed."If parental control is bad, why do parents use it?"Because they obviously don't trust their kids enough to have access to the whole internet. There's lots of things parental controls weed out that are far from innapropriate."If it's so good that parents should use it, why doesn't God?"I don't think it's a good thing at all, in fact I don't think they should have it. So why would God?"God is a shitty parent. "Ouch. God forgive ya.How did you come to this conclusion?[This message has been edited by Born2Preach, 03-22-2004]

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Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit.

Ohh, sweet avatar of Columbo!

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The earth is flat.

WTF?I was talking about murder, not shin-kicking. You still haven't refuted the fact that evil - at least some kinds - reduce choice, and no evil increases choice. Observation. Good parents don't put their children in situations of danger or harm.Of course, I'm mostly kidding. The real reason that God allows bad things to happen is because God doesn't actually exist.

quote:

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God doesn't actually exist

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annoying.

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The earth is flat.

Earlier today I just got home from school so I was kind of tired. I guess my arguement wasn't as strong at that time, but now that I just got back from doorbell ditching I'm wide awake so let's work this jive turkey:"WTF?I was talking about murder, not shin-kicking."Really. To my understanding you were talking about evil in general, with murder as an example. It may not be evil as in devestating to the world as we know it, but it's still evil because it hurts."You still haven't refuted the fact that evil - at least some kinds - reduce choice..."'at least some kinds' is more like it. Saying all X do Y is a generalization; generalizations annoy me.I agree with this, I've no reason to argue with it. But the next part is another story:"...no evil increases choice."Untrue. Let's say the shin kicking(assuming we both agree it's a minor form of evil) occurs at a bus station. Both people were waiting for the bus. I guess one could do anything in his power at any moment, making endless choices. However, the shin kicking will create more plausable choices for both parties:Kicker:Can run away, continue kicking, or wait for the bus like nothing happened, just to name a few.Kickee:Can chase the person, curl in fetal position and cry, talk to them about why in the world they did it, or just ignore the other person and continue waiting.ALTHOUGH all of these COULD have been done without the shin kicking, it'd be silly for me to ask someone why they kicked me in the shin when they haven't done so.Please remember that I am not advocating evil as a good thing; in fact my original arguement in this thread was that God is not evil.
How we got to this I don't know but if you would like to keep going on this we can open another thread."Observation. Good parents don't put their children in situations of danger or harm."I disagree. By letting them go to school unsupervised by the parents, they are put in harm's way. However, most would agree that keeping a child home and protected their whole lives is by no means good parenting."Of course, I'm mostly kidding. The real reason that God allows bad things to happen is because God doesn't actually exist."I don't mind kidding; more people need to relax and have fun on this forum.However, there's lots of people who would disagree with that real reason. If you'd like to convince them otherwise this is the right place to do it, but just like everyone here you'll need 'evidence to support this claim'.[This message has been edited by Born2Preach, 03-23-2004]

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Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit.