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Author Topic:   To John
Delshad
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 24 (26596)
12-14-2002 3:10 PM


Hi John
I have seen many replies from you where you have stated your problems with religion, and you said how you have spend about 20 years of your life trying to decide your stand with Christianity and that it has occasionaly teared you apart.
You have even read the Bible 5 times, admirable!
I felt sad for you and I hope you won`t get offended by a youngster giving you advice .. ?
Firstly, the connection between and man and his religion, is very personal.
Usually, the more you see a man acting as a religious cliche`, the more he is unreligious.
Just live your life, thats all, and weather you will believe in God or not, time will tell, its up to you.
I could say this though, if its any comfort.
Our God ,Allah, God, Jehova, are all understood to be Beneficient, Merciful.
Its a shared believe wich the Abrahamitic religions are very decisive about.
So just do your best to take care of yourself, your family and friends (its a philosophy which holds true in any occasion).
For instance, in this very moment you read this topic, how many things could you have done for the benefit of yourself, or someone else?
Ask yourself that..
No excuses, nothing.
You see, religion isn`t about reading books, pray, visiting churches,mosques, etc.
Knowledge can be compared to an ocean wich never quenshes your thirst, but if you drink from the fresh water a few cups and then continue your journey, then atleast you are heading somewhere.
Similarly, a man who has cleared all his doubts in his mind by merely reading and praying isn`t even worthy of being mentioned in the same sentence as the man , who lives in doubt yet provides for himself and his family and kins.
If you do that, then you have nothing to fear, because God is Beneficient , Merciful,and he , no matter if you believe in him or not, is Oft-forgiving, to the man who has lived had a just life.
Sincerely Delshad
[This message has been edited by Delshad, 12-14-2002]

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by John, posted 12-14-2002 4:03 PM Delshad has replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 24 (26603)
12-14-2002 4:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Delshad
12-14-2002 3:10 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Delshad:
You have even read the Bible 5 times, admirable!
Yeah, people never believe that. Actually, five times I am sure of....
quote:
Usually, the more you see a man acting as a religious cliche`, the more he is unreligious.
My take is that religion is a code of conduct based upon a particular philosophical/theological system. The theology enforces the rules of conduct. Thus, when the people fail to follow the rules, the theology is shown to be lacking.
quote:
Our God, in Islam ,Allah, God, Jehova, are all understood to be Beneficient, Merciful.
Its a shared believe wich the Abrahamitic religions are very decisive about.

And very self-contradictory in that regard as well.
quote:
For instance, in this very moment you read this topic, how many things could you have done for the benefit of yourself, or someone else?
That is an impossible question to answer. But all I do is investigate stuff.
quote:
If you do that, then you have nothing to fear, because God is Beneficient , Mercifull,and he , no matter if you believe in him or not, is Oft-forgiving, to the man who has had a just life.
Kinda how I see it really.
------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Delshad, posted 12-14-2002 3:10 PM Delshad has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by robinrohan, posted 12-14-2002 5:02 PM John has replied
 Message 12 by Delshad, posted 12-15-2002 4:17 PM John has replied

  
robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 24 (26608)
12-14-2002 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by John
12-14-2002 4:03 PM


I've noticed, John, that you are very popular. People want to talk to YOU especially. What is the secret of your social success?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by John, posted 12-14-2002 4:03 PM John has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by John, posted 12-14-2002 5:29 PM robinrohan has not replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 24 (26614)
12-14-2002 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by robinrohan
12-14-2002 5:02 PM


quote:
Originally posted by robinrohan:
I've noticed, John, that you are very popular. People want to talk to YOU especially. What is the secret of your social success?
It all started with this email advertising a perfume with pheromones in it.......
Really, I don't know. I guess I'm not qualified to answer that question. I'd think I'd be a pretty grating personality but I guess something works.
------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by robinrohan, posted 12-14-2002 5:02 PM robinrohan has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by forgiven, posted 12-14-2002 10:13 PM John has replied

  
forgiven
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 24 (26623)
12-14-2002 10:13 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by John
12-14-2002 5:29 PM


quote:
Originally posted by John:
It all started with this email advertising a perfume with pheromones in it.......
Really, I don't know. I guess I'm not qualified to answer that question. I'd think I'd be a pretty grating personality but I guess something works.
*gasp* grating? heheh... hey john, we've all grated at one time or another... ummmmm... what email?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by John, posted 12-14-2002 5:29 PM John has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by John, posted 12-15-2002 12:15 AM forgiven has replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 24 (26631)
12-15-2002 12:15 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by forgiven
12-14-2002 10:13 PM


quote:
Originally posted by forgiven:
ummmmm... what email?
Its spam I get about six times a week. I'm not sure where they got my name. Gimme your email address and I'll make sure they get it though. I'd hate for you to miss out.
------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by forgiven, posted 12-14-2002 10:13 PM forgiven has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by forgiven, posted 12-15-2002 12:34 AM John has not replied

  
forgiven
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 24 (26635)
12-15-2002 12:34 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by John
12-15-2002 12:15 AM


quote:
Originally posted by John:
quote:
Originally posted by forgiven:
ummmmm... what email?
Its spam I get about six times a week. I'm not sure where they got my name. Gimme your email address and I'll make sure they get it though. I'd hate for you to miss out.

LOL... no thx, one woman in my life is complicated enough...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by John, posted 12-15-2002 12:15 AM John has not replied

  
Delshad
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 24 (26639)
12-15-2002 5:16 AM


I see this is going nowhere.
Admin, you may delete the Topic.

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by John, posted 12-15-2002 11:31 AM Delshad has replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 24 (26649)
12-15-2002 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Delshad
12-15-2002 5:16 AM


quote:
Originally posted by Delshad:
I see this is going nowhere.
Admin, you may delete the Topic.

You aren't being much of a sport really.
I replied to your post. You have been silent since.
Where do you want the topic to go?
------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Delshad, posted 12-15-2002 5:16 AM Delshad has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Delshad, posted 12-15-2002 12:25 PM John has replied

  
Delshad
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 24 (26652)
12-15-2002 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by John
12-15-2002 11:31 AM


I just felt sad for you and wanted to give you some advice.
But judging from the nature of your reply and the way the topic is heading, I thought that my effort was in vain and that I had misread you somehow.
So I lost interest, no offense though.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by John, posted 12-15-2002 11:31 AM John has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by John, posted 12-15-2002 1:07 PM Delshad has not replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 24 (26653)
12-15-2002 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Delshad
12-15-2002 12:25 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Delshad:
But judging from the nature of your reply and the way the topic is heading, I thought that my effort was in vain and that I had misread you somehow.
My first comment was friendly but pretty neutral.
My next comment was an attempt to elaborate on the way I view religion and its role in society.
My third comment is a valid, or at least reasonable, refutation of your claim that God is merciful. Only the faithful think the OT blood bath demonstrates mercy.
And my final two comments are in agreement with you.
What precisely is wrong with the nature of my reply? Is it that I didn't take what your advise without reflecting upon it?
------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com
[This message has been edited by John, 12-15-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Delshad, posted 12-15-2002 12:25 PM Delshad has not replied

  
Delshad
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 24 (26657)
12-15-2002 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by John
12-14-2002 4:03 PM


Hi friend, ill try to give you my opinions here:
Delshad: Usually, the more you see a man acting as a religious cliche`, the more he is unreligious.
quote:
My take is that religion is a code of conduct based upon a particular philosophical/theological system. The theology enforces the rules of conduct. Thus, when the people fail to follow the rules, the theology is shown to be lacking.
Delshad:
Yes, it is a set of conduct based open a theological system.
However, what I meant was that for example:
If you see a man shouting religious words or talking to you in a very synthetic manner, then he is perhaps merely seeking attention.
You know, he wishes to distinguish himself amongst other people just because he has a certain belief, acting superior you might call it.
That is the type of cliche`I was talking about.
That is highly unnecessary and religious conduct has to a certain degree change as time progresses in the parts where no theological significance lays.
Delshad:Our God, in Islam ,Allah, God, Jehova, are all understood to be Beneficient, Merciful.
Its a shared believe wich the Abrahamitic religions are very decisive about.
John:
quote:
And very self-contradictory in that regard as well.
Delshad: Well as a moslem I dont really understand your reply here...
Ill tell you this , in every one of the over 100 suras("chapters") within our Holy book the Quran, each sura begins with the sentence:
In the Name of Allah, the Beneficient, the Merciful.
And our God (Allah) is the same God as in the rest of the Abrahamitic religions.
I believe the OT means the Original Testamente, im not sure.
But I have noticed this, every time a christian talks to you about the Bible you say that the Bible contains barbary and rapes etc etc.
You have even sais that the chistians are devil-worshippers.
That is a very rude comment.
Think about it, even Jesus said, turn the other cheek, he was agaisnt opression, he believed in the brotherhood of man and he taught love and morals giving many civilisations peace and prosperity.
How can you possibly say that this man was the proclaimer of butchery,rape and racism etc!?
Have you thought about the possibility that some parts of the Bible are later scriptures, written by men who wished to take advantge of the believers for own profits.
That would make alot of sense since 90 % of the bible contradicts to the very essence those evil parts that you so gladly and frequently point out.
.
Dilshad:
Judging from the nature of your reply and the way the topic is heading, I thought that my effort was in vain and that I had misread you somehow.
quote:
My first comment was friendly but pretty neutral.
My next comment was an attempt to elaborate on the way I view religion and its role in society.
My third comment is a valid, or at least reasonable, refutation of your claim that God is merciful. Only the faithful think the OT blood bath demonstrates mercy.
And my final two comments are in agreement with you.
What precisely is wrong with the nature of my reply? Is it that I didn't take what your advise without reflecting upon it?
This is precisely the kind of comments that makes you grating .
Please get rid of your belief that every theists dont reflect and think.
Its very insulting and leads to nowhere.
Take Care John

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by John, posted 12-14-2002 4:03 PM John has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by John, posted 12-16-2002 12:11 AM Delshad has replied

  
John
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 24 (26687)
12-16-2002 12:11 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Delshad
12-15-2002 4:17 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Delshad:
You know, he wishes to distinguish himself amongst other people just because he has a certain belief, acting superior you might call it.
Ok. But this doesn't address the objection I raised. In fact it plays right into it. A religion that does not produce the behaviors it claims is a failed religion.
quote:
Well as a moslem I dont really understand your reply here...
Ill tell you this , in every one of the over 100 suras("chapters") within our Holy book the Quran, each sura begins with the sentence:
In the Name of Allah, the Beneficient, the Merciful.

I have not read the Quran in its entirety. I have it here though, and read bits now and then. The Quran, as does the New Testament (NT), portrays a very different God than that of the Old Testament (OT), the ancient Isrealite scripture, parts of which are accepted as scripture by Islam. The God of the OT is vicious, and vengeful, the author of both good and evil. I understand that moslems believe the OT has been corrupted, hence the need for the Quran. So Islam has a way, perhaps, out of this mess. Christians, however, stubbornly insist that both Gods are the same God and that both portrayals are accurate.
quote:
But I have noticed this, every time a christian talks to you about the Bible you say that the Bible contains barbary and rapes etc etc.
Well, it does.
quote:
You have even sais that the chistians are devil-worshippers.
When? Where?
quote:
How can you possibly say that this man was the proclaimer of butchery,rape and racism etc!?
I haven't. The OT is full of such things however.
quote:
Have you thought about the possibility that some parts of the Bible are later scriptures, written by men who wished to take advantge of the believers for own profits.
Yes. Indeed I have. I'd say about 99% fits the bill.
quote:
That would make alot of sense since 90 % of the bible contradicts to the very essence those evil parts that you so gladly and frequently point out.
You must have gotten your numbers backwards. 10%, maybe, contradicts the nasty bits.
quote:
This is precisely the kind of comments that makes you grating .
Sorry? You tell me that the nature of my reply was somehow lacking. I summarize that reply and ask what you found problematic, and you respond by telling me that this is grating? Please. That is a very thin skin.
quote:
Please get rid of your belief that every theists dont reflect and think.
Its very insulting and leads to nowhere.

Please tell what I have said to you in this very short thread that leads you to this conclusion. As far as I can tell it came out of nowhere.
------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Delshad, posted 12-15-2002 4:17 PM Delshad has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Delshad, posted 12-16-2002 5:10 AM John has replied

  
Delshad
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 24 (26710)
12-16-2002 5:10 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by John
12-16-2002 12:11 AM


Hi John, I guess I owe you some apologies.
I was in a hurry when I made made the replies.
Im sorry.
Dilshad

You have even said that the chistians are devil-worshippers.
quote:
When? Where?
I have either mixed you up with someone else or perhaps you had just stated that sarcastically.
Either way, I had no intention if discrediting you and I apologize.
Dilshad:
Please get rid of your belief that every theists dont reflect and think.
Its very insulting and leads to nowhere.
John:
quote:
Please tell what I have said to you in this very short thread that leads you to this conclusion. As far as I can tell it came out of nowhere.
Well I got it from, ".....Is it that I didn`t reflect upon the advice.
This seem to imply that my advice hadn`t been reflected upon.
But I could be wrong however and have misunderstood you entirely.
Im embarresed , once again,I apologize.
Have a good week John, and Take care!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by John, posted 12-16-2002 12:11 AM John has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by funkmasterfreaky, posted 12-16-2002 9:17 AM Delshad has not replied
 Message 21 by John, posted 12-16-2002 12:09 PM Delshad has replied

  
funkmasterfreaky
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 24 (26722)
12-16-2002 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Delshad
12-16-2002 5:10 AM


Delshad,
I see you have made reference to the teachings of Jesus Christ in this thread. Please forgive my ignorance of your faith, however I am led to believe that you deny the "Godhood" of Jesus. I am wondering how you do this considering Jesus claims openly to be the son of God. When he teaches the forgiveness of sin? Maybe this deserves a whole new thread. I hope I have not offended or misrepresented you here. As far as I know we worship the same God, Jehovah.
------------------
Saved by an incredible Grace.
[This message has been edited by funkmasterfreaky, 12-16-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Delshad, posted 12-16-2002 5:10 AM Delshad has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Primordial Egg, posted 12-16-2002 9:43 AM funkmasterfreaky has replied

  
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