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Author Topic:   THE EVOLUTIONISTS' GUIDE TO PROPER CHRISTIAN BEHAVIOUR
Jet
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 120 (25943)
12-08-2002 12:55 PM


OK all you Darwinian philosophers out there. Here is your chance to instruct Christians on how to behave as a "Proper Christian" so that they do not offend any pagans, heretics, agnostics, nihilists, satanists, or anti-theists. Have at it!
------------------
As we survey all the evidence, the thought insistently arises that some supernatural agency - or, rather, Agency - must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially crafted the cosmos for our benefit?
Prof. George Greenstein

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Admin, posted 12-08-2002 2:00 PM Jet has replied
 Message 7 by Chara, posted 12-09-2002 1:48 AM Jet has replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 13081
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 2 of 120 (25948)
12-08-2002 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jet
12-08-2002 12:55 PM


This is a reply to comments from Jet in Message 65 in the A Christian (and creationist)'s condemnation of thread of the Is it Science forum. Jet probably intended to begin this thread with that discussion.
Jet writes:
This is not the first time I have received a query from the evolutionists' side as to what does or does not qualify as proper "Christian" behaviour when it comes to dealing with pagans, heretics, and anti-theists.
I believe the Christian position is that you should treat others the way you would want them to treat you. Christ counseled tolerance, saying that if someone smites your cheek that you turn to them the other. Christ also said not to criticize the sliver in someone else's eye until you have addressed with the timber in your own. Nowhere did he say that there is a different set of standards for pagans, heretics and anti-theists.
So as to get a better understanding of the evolutionary mind and its' thought processes, I have open a new thread within the "FAITH AND BELIEF" forum. Perhaps those evolutionists who are so adept at instructing Christians how to behave as a "Proper Christian" would care to enlighten everyone on their views of the proper behaviour of believers, especially considering the fact that most evolutionists utterly deny Christianity and its' teachings.
More evolutionists than not are members of one religion or another, and there is no uniformity in their religious views.
But you're not being asked to adhere to Christian principles. I only mentioned it because of my surprise that it is a Christian whose behavior is least consistent with them than anyone else here.
All you're being asked to do is to follow the Forum Guidelines. This site is for serious discussion. I've set aside the Free For All forum for those who prefer a freer environment or a less serious focus.
My suggestion is that you focus on discussing topics of interest to you and try to leave aside your obvious repugnance toward evolutionists. If you do not your next suspension will be for a week, and the next for a month.
------------------
--EvC Forum Administrator
[This message has been edited by Admin, 12-08-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jet, posted 12-08-2002 12:55 PM Jet has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by forgiven, posted 12-08-2002 7:50 PM Admin has replied
 Message 8 by Jet, posted 12-09-2002 3:17 AM Admin has replied

forgiven
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 120 (25977)
12-08-2002 7:50 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Admin
12-08-2002 2:00 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Admin:
My suggestion is that you focus on discussing topics of interest to you and try to leave aside your obvious repugnance toward evolutionists. If you do not your next suspension will be for a week, and the next for a month.
i think this is fair, however has it come to your attention that the occasional atheist shows "obvious repugnance" toward christians? i believe mutual respect is a good thing to strive for and that neither side should resort to the things you mention

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Admin, posted 12-08-2002 2:00 PM Admin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Admin, posted 12-08-2002 9:26 PM forgiven has replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 13081
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 5 of 120 (25985)
12-08-2002 9:26 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by forgiven
12-08-2002 7:50 PM


forgiven writes:
i think this is fair, however has it come to your attention that the occasional atheist shows "obvious repugnance" toward christians? i believe mutual respect is a good thing to strive for and that neither side should resort to the things you mention
It certainly has come to my attention, but my ability to detect guideline violations on both sides of the debate is not balanced. That's why we have Adminaquility, and I'm looking for another moderator with a Creationist viewpoint so that both sides have equal representation. You can certainly email me at Evc Forum Administrator if you think someone may be violating the guidelines, but you might also consider emailing Adminaquility.
------------------
--EvC Forum Administrator

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by forgiven, posted 12-08-2002 7:50 PM forgiven has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by funkmasterfreaky, posted 12-09-2002 12:02 AM Admin has not replied
 Message 21 by forgiven, posted 12-09-2002 8:38 PM Admin has not replied
 Message 26 by Mammuthus, posted 12-10-2002 3:06 AM Admin has not replied

funkmasterfreaky
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 120 (25998)
12-09-2002 12:02 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Admin
12-08-2002 9:26 PM


I think, we're all adults here who can conduct our selves in a proper fashion, and admit and apologize when we haven't. Administration is not the problem, it's a fact that it's a very heated subject, and easy to get a little carried away. Maybe we should just show some respect to each other no matter how absurd their belief may sound to you.
------------------
saved by grace

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Admin, posted 12-08-2002 9:26 PM Admin has not replied

Chara
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 120 (26001)
12-09-2002 1:48 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jet
12-08-2002 12:55 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Jet:
OK all you Darwinian philosophers out there. Here is your chance to instruct Christians on how to behave as a "Proper Christian" so that they do not offend any pagans, heretics, agnostics, nihilists, satanists, or anti-theists. Have at it!

Jet,
You and I both know that we don't need to look to anyone or anything else for our "rules of conduct". Our fearless leader *silly grin* pointed out the conduct of Jesus who when reviled, reviled not. There are also numerous passages exhorting us as believers to be gentle, kind, etc., etc.
The thing is, we don't get to judge those who don't believe by the same standards ... but they do get to judge us. Drat, eh? They know the standard ... and they expect us to live by it .... forgetting that we are human too. Don't lose heart ... do not weary in doing good and remember when we say we speak/act/live for God, EVERYTHING we do tells about God ... and we either tell a lie, or we tell the truth.
Sermonette over :-)
oh yeah, you don't HAVE to click the post button (this is the only medium in which we can really "think before we speak")

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jet, posted 12-08-2002 12:55 PM Jet has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Jet, posted 12-09-2002 3:31 AM Chara has not replied
 Message 22 by forgiven, posted 12-09-2002 8:40 PM Chara has not replied
 Message 34 by nator, posted 01-24-2003 8:36 AM Chara has not replied

Jet
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 120 (26008)
12-09-2002 3:17 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Admin
12-08-2002 2:00 PM


Originally posted by Admin:
I believe the Christian position is that you should treat others the way you would want them to treat you.
***You are only partially correct. We are also instructed to offer subtle insult to those who utterly reject the Gospel of the Kingdom of God. Perhaps I am not always as subtle as I should be.***
Originally posted by Admin:
More evolutionists than not are members of one religion or another, and there is no uniformity in their religious views.
***I would not disagree, but this simply reinforces my argument concerning pagans, heretics, and anti-theists.***
Originally posted by Admin:
But you're not being asked to adhere to Christian principles. I only mentioned it because of my surprise that it is a Christian whose behavior is least consistent with them than anyone else here.
***Of all the comments you make here, this one seems most incredulous. Either you have not payed close enough attention to everyone else or perhaps you are making an attempt to bait me. At any rate, one need only read some of the postings by several evolutionists to recognize that their behaviour in no way resembles the Christian behaviour, but on the contrary, present a totally agnostic view which at times has been adamantly anti-Christian in nature.
As you yourself stated to another poster concerning forum guideline violations.......""It certainly has come to my attention, but my ability to detect guideline violations on both sides of the debate is not balanced.""
Perhaps your concentration upon my violations, as well as my noticing your unbalanced enforcement of those violations committed by others who have been directly posting to me, has played a significant part in my "unacceptable" behaviour. Personally, I believe that my ability to "piss off" some of the evolutionists through the exposure of certain failures of the TOE, has also contributed to this dilema.
Once again I will endeavor to follow forum guidelines with the acknowledgement that if further violations do happen to surface, that the unbalance that I have observed thus far will continue until a staunch creationist joins you in monitoring the forums. With that in mind, I will attempt to follow forum guidelines with the understanding that next time I will get a weeks vacation. One can only do ones' best and I will endeavor to do mine but I make no promises because I would hate to break that promise.***
Shalom
Jet
------------------
As we survey all the evidence, the thought insistently arises that some supernatural agency - or, rather, Agency - must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially crafted the cosmos for our benefit?
Prof. George Greenstein

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Admin, posted 12-08-2002 2:00 PM Admin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Admin, posted 12-09-2002 8:06 AM Jet has replied

Jet
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 120 (26009)
12-09-2002 3:31 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Chara
12-09-2002 1:48 AM


Originally posted by Chara:
Jet,
You and I both know that we don't need to look to anyone or anything else for our "rules of conduct". Our fearless leader *silly grin* pointed out the conduct of Jesus who when reviled, reviled not. There are also numerous passages exhorting us as believers to be gentle, kind, etc., etc.
The thing is, we don't get to judge those who don't believe by the same standards ... but they do get to judge us. Drat, eh? They know the standard ... and they expect us to live by it .... forgetting that we are human too. Don't lose heart ... do not weary in doing good and remember when we say we speak/act/live for God, EVERYTHING we do tells about God ... and we either tell a lie, or we tell the truth.
Sermonette over :-)
oh yeah, you don't HAVE to click the post button (this is the only medium in which we can really "think before we speak")
***I think that what is not understood by the administrator, as well as many of the evolutionists, is that Christ was not some goody two-shoes who went around letting everyone abuse him or his words. He was extremely outspoken to those who at least professed to have some knowledge of the scriptures, which many of these evolutionists seem to have. I don't know, perhaps it is an underlying concern that I have for those who have rejected the Living Word of God that compells me to verbally slap some sense into them, so to speak. At any rate, I have not come across a single evolutionist who was well versed enough in the Holy Scriptures to make an informed and intelligent observation on the entirety of the Word of God. More's the pity!***
Shalom
Jet
------------------
As we survey all the evidence, the thought insistently arises that some supernatural agency - or, rather, Agency - must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially crafted the cosmos for our benefit?
Prof. George Greenstein

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Chara, posted 12-09-2002 1:48 AM Chara has not replied

Karl
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 120 (26011)
12-09-2002 3:35 AM


What does evolution have to do with "rejecting the Living Word of God"?
Nothing except what the creationist side attributes to it.
No webpage found at provided URL: http://freespace.virgin.net/karl_and.gnome/thelie.htm
[This message has been edited by Karl, 12-09-2002]

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Jet, posted 12-09-2002 3:14 PM Karl has replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 13081
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 12 of 120 (26017)
12-09-2002 8:06 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Jet
12-09-2002 3:17 AM


Jet writes:
Once again I will endeavor to follow forum guidelines with the acknowledgement that if further violations do happen to surface, that the unbalance that I have observed thus far will continue until a staunch creationist joins you in monitoring the forums.
Nominations for a staunch Creationist moderator are now open. Fred Williams has already informed me that he doesn't have the available time right now.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Jet, posted 12-09-2002 3:17 AM Jet has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by John, posted 12-09-2002 8:22 AM Admin has not replied
 Message 14 by Quetzal, posted 12-09-2002 8:31 AM Admin has replied
 Message 16 by Jet, posted 12-09-2002 2:13 PM Admin has not replied

John
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 120 (26018)
12-09-2002 8:22 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Admin
12-09-2002 8:06 AM


quote:
Originally posted by Admin:
Nominations for a staunch Creationist moderator are now open. Fred Williams has already informed me that he doesn't have the available time right now.
Man! I was sooooo ready to vote for Fred. I mean, he does have experience....
------------------
No webpage found at provided URL: www.hells-handmaiden.com
[This message has been edited by John, 12-09-2002]
[This message has been edited by John, 12-09-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Admin, posted 12-09-2002 8:06 AM Admin has not replied

Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5951 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 14 of 120 (26019)
12-09-2002 8:31 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Admin
12-09-2002 8:06 AM


Although I'm not too sure how much time he's got available, I would like to suggest you contact forgiven for the position. In spite of his occasional crossing of swords with certain evo posters (not to mention any names John ), I think he'd make a pretty fair - in both senses - moderator.
PS: You were kidding about Fred, right?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Admin, posted 12-09-2002 8:06 AM Admin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Admin, posted 12-09-2002 9:39 AM Quetzal has not replied
 Message 17 by mark24, posted 12-09-2002 2:24 PM Quetzal has not replied
 Message 18 by mark24, posted 12-09-2002 2:26 PM Quetzal has not replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 13081
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 15 of 120 (26021)
12-09-2002 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Quetzal
12-09-2002 8:31 AM


Quetzal writes:
Although I'm not too sure how much time he's got available, I would like to suggest you contact forgiven for the position.
Forgiven, how do you feel about this? Do you have the available time? Are you here for the long term?
Any seconds for forgiven? It should come from a Creationist, since the nomination was from an evolutionist.
I know I'm carrying out this process differently from when Adminaquility became a moderator, but TB had been here over six months at the time, while Forgiven has been here less than a month, so I feel I need more data.
PS: You were kidding about Fred, right?
Nope! There's a set of Moderator Guidelines. Moderators can get booted, too. I don't think what happened at OCW was Fred's fault, but was more a result of a flawed philosophy on how to moderate discussions. For example, they attempt to make objective assessments of what are in essence subjective issues, such as whether someone is misrepresenting someone else's views, and then they edit and/or delete posts based on the assessment, something that we don't do here. It's a tough temptation to resist when you're a moderator and you feel that someone is either obfuscating or stonewalling or misrepresenting or purposefully misinterpreting, but you have to keep telling yourself that, number one, you could easily be wrong, and number two, that heavy-handed moderation is counter-productive, though it certainly makes for great entertainment.
EvC Forum is a learning experience for me, and I hope for many others. I mean this in more than the sense of just the Creation/Evolution debate itself. On-line public discussions have been taking place on the Internet since the 70s (it was called the Arpanet then), but I don't think we've learned how to do this very effectively yet. In my view EvC Forum is on the right track, but we've still got a ways to go.
------------------
--EvC Forum Administrator

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Quetzal, posted 12-09-2002 8:31 AM Quetzal has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by forgiven, posted 12-09-2002 8:49 PM Admin has not replied
 Message 27 by Syamsu, posted 12-10-2002 4:35 AM Admin has not replied

Jet
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 120 (26042)
12-09-2002 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Admin
12-09-2002 8:06 AM


Originally posted by Admin:
Nominations for a staunch Creationist moderator are now open. Fred Williams has already informed me that he doesn't have the available time right now.
***I haven't been back long enough to make an accurate assessment of who may qualify for this position. I may venture to nominate someone once I have become more familiar with board members.***
Shalom
Jet
------------------
As we survey all the evidence, the thought insistently arises that some supernatural agency - or, rather, Agency - must be involved. Is it possible that suddenly, without intending to, we have stumbled upon scientific proof of the existence of a Supreme Being? Was it God who stepped in and so providentially crafted the cosmos for our benefit?
Prof. George Greenstein
[This message has been edited by Jet, 12-09-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Admin, posted 12-09-2002 8:06 AM Admin has not replied

mark24
Member (Idle past 5274 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 17 of 120 (26045)
12-09-2002 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Quetzal
12-09-2002 8:31 AM


[deleted duplicate message - probably occurred due to continuing server issue. --Admin]
[This message has been edited by Admin, 12-09-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Quetzal, posted 12-09-2002 8:31 AM Quetzal has not replied

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