Kent Hovind is a Doctor (READ ON) personally debunks the issue

Hi, I recently went to talkorigins and read all of the "proof" against Hovind. You have to realize the person who runs that site hates Hovind with a deep passion. Well I asked Dr. Hovind if he was really a doctor and if he got his diploma from a diploma mill. Here is what he had to say:

quote:

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" Every once in a while someone will ask me the question, "Where did you get your degree?" While I am not the least bit ashamed of my education, I have learned by experience that they could be asking the question because they have come to the point where they cannot attack the message I bring against evolution so they wish to attack me personally instead. This is called an ad hominem argument. They mistakenly think that by belittling the man they have answered his points and won the debate. When the opponent in a debate begins using ad hominem attacks, it is an obvious signal that they are losing the debate on facts and must resort to other means to try to save face or divert attention. It is also interesting to watch how the evolutionists will spend much time and effort scrutinizing a subject like my degree or credentials yet won't spend 2 seconds scrutinizing how ridiculous the evolution theory is! They truly strain at a gnat and swallow a camel. Matthew 23:24

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Back to the degree question. I took advanced math and science classes at East Peoria High School graduating in 1971. I earned my first 60 (+ or -) credit hours majoring in math and science at Illinois Central College in East Peoria, Illinois. I then transferred to Midwestern Baptist College in Pontiac, Michigan where I double majored in education and the Bible and graduated in 1974. (I took 18-20 hours each semester plus summer school to graduate in 3 years.) While I taught math and science in Christian schools for the next 15 years I took courses at several Bible colleges in my spare time. I finished my Masters (1988) and Doctorate (1991) degrees in education from Patriot University. At the time it was small Christian university in Colorado Springs that offered an extension program for people involved in full time ministries. I was taking courses from Patriot University (established 1980) while it was a ministry of Hilltop Baptist Church and offered a Ph.D. in education. I spent many years working on my degree and learned a lot - as anyone who has watched my debates with evolutionists or seminar series will testify.

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Long after I graduated, Patriot became independent of the church, moved their offices into a house and dropped the Ph.D. in their education program. Some ill informed scoffers have even circulated a picture of the house where they are now located. I don't understand their logic but evidently they think this somehow discredits me. Patriot allowed students to give offerings to the school instead of a regular tuition payment. Some scoffers have laughed at this idea yet they don't seem to realize how many thousands have gone through secular schools without using any of their own money via grants, scholarships or their parent's savings. Some have ridiculed the size of the school. If Harvard offers a Ph.D. degree program with only 3 or 4 students (this happens at many schools- sometimes with only 1 student), does the small number automatically mean they are not "earning their degree" or that they are attending a "diploma mill" school? Of course not! Nearly all schools offer classes by correspondence. My 250-page dissertation dealt with the subject of the effects of teaching evolution on the students in our public school system.

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My 20-year study of the creation evolutionism subject led me to start Creation Science Evangelism in 1991. I now speak over 700 times each year on the subject, have had 40+ debates and have been a guest on over 3500 radio and television talk shows. My itinerary is available from my office or on my web site, and any evolutionist interested in a public debate any place they chose is welcome to contact me to arrange a time while I am in their area. Since they think I don't have a degree, they can call me Kent, Mr. Hovind or even "hey you," if it will make them feel better. Since they don't think I am "properly educated" it should be easy for them to demonstrate how wrong I am and how much evidence there is for evolution. I should be a pushover, but I am willing to debate them anyway and run the risk of publicly embarrassing myself. I hope this helps answer your question.

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If you are looking for someone with advanced degrees in science, I do not have them and have never claimed that I did. If you would like the names of scientists who support the young earth creationist position you may want to contact the Institute for Creation Research at 619-448-0900 or www.icr.org. They can supply you with a list. I only claim to have many years experience in studying the subject and the common sense to know that the universe is too complex to have happened without an incredibly smart designer (whom I happen to know personally as my savior).

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By the way, Darwin's only degree was in theology yet he is often called a great scientist in textbooks today. Who and what determines who gets to be called a "scientist" and why don't these scoffers put the same effort into correcting textbooks that call "Reverend" Darwin a scientist? If I can be of any further help please don't hesitate to call. I'm normally in the office Wednesdays, Thursdays and Fridays from 8-4"

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Its in email format so it does look a little weird while reading. Hopefully you guys realize he is a real Doctor. The message speaks for itself.------------------
"I believe in christianity as I believe the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else."-C.S. Lewiscontact me for any reason at: messenjahjr@yahoo.com{Edited to try to improve format. The paragraph breaks are my quick choices - they may be wrong. I also added the quote box - Adminnemooseus}[This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 08-08-2003]

I'll match my six years of living in the student slums of Columbus, Ohio making $3600 a year while I was earning my PhD in chemistry against that pitiful clown any day. If he's so well educated, why does he make so many elementary errors every time he opens his yap?

I only wrote that to show that he does have a PhD.------------------
"I believe in christianity as I believe the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else."-C.S. Lewiscontact me for any reason at: messenjahjr@yahoo.com[This message has been edited by messenjaH, 08-08-2003]

No, this doesn't settle it at all. Assume that Kent Hovind got a diploma mill doctorate to boost his credibility - what are the odds that he would back down just because someone spotted it ?This page lists "Name it and Frame it" as reliable :
BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 150 versions and 50 languages.: IfcAnd by all accounts "Name it and Frame it" listed Patriot University as a diploma mill.And, having seen his website, I have to say that he seems to know very little about evolution.And why do you claim that the owner of talkorigins.org hates Hovind ?

I was told by a man who met Dr. Hovind.I cant believe the proof is right there and you refuse to accept it.
-Chris------------------
"I believe in christianity as I believe the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else."-C.S. Lewiscontact me for any reason at: messenjahjr@yahoo.com[This message has been edited by messenjaH, 08-08-2003]

The proof isn't there. I'm just going with the evidence.

sure.------------------
"I believe in christianity as I believe the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else."-C.S. Lewiscontact me for any reason at: messenjahjr@yahoo.com

If his degree was bogus, why do you think he would tell you?Geez, what a world of credulity you must live in. "Did that guy kill his wife and kid?" "I know, let's ask him!"It's mind-boggling why you would think that Hovind's word counts for anything on this matter.Anyway, did you notice his degrees are all in Bible studies or education? Even by his own admission he has no biological training. So why is his opinion relevant to this discussion? One would think that a man who calls himself "Dr. Dino" could get a degree in paleontology, at least.

He openly admits that.------------------
"I believe in christianity as I believe the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else."-C.S. Lewiscontact me for any reason at: messenjahjr@yahoo.com

"It is [...] interesting to watch how the evolutionists will spend much time and effort scrutinizing a subject like my degree or credentials yet won't spend 2 seconds scrutinizing how ridiculous the evolution theory is!"Maybe that's because in two seconds they realize it is such an elegant and plausible idea that from that moment on they will spend a lot more than two seconds on finding out more about it."I took advanced math and science classes at East Peoria High School graduating in 1971."Thereby stretching the meaning of the word 'advanced' to breaking point."I [...] transferred to Midwestern Baptist College in Pontiac, Michigan where I double majored in education and the Bible and
graduated in 1974." (Emphasis by Parasomnium)"I finished my Masters (1988) and Doctorate (1991) degrees in education from Patriot University." (Emphasis by Parasomnium)So it's mainly education mr Hovind has a degree in, not (molecular) biology, taxonomy, geology, paleontology, physics, (bio)chemistry, to name but a few sciences pertaining to evolution."I spent many years working on my degree and learned a lot ...""a lot" being what exactly?"... - as anyone who has watched my debates with evolutionists or seminar series will testify."Anyone who is very gullible and who isn't particularly well educated, that is. And then only maybe."Long after I graduated, Patriot became independent of the
church, moved their offices into a house and dropped the Ph.D. in their education program."Long after 1991? Well, I guess for someone who thinks the earth is only six thousand years old, twelve years (or less) really is a long time.The following text comes from the information page of Patriot University (http://www.patriotuniversity.com/general.asp):
"We firmly believe that conclusions about life and reality must be based on the Word of God above all other experience and research."That's one good reason to drop the Ph.D."Since they think I don't have a degree, they can call me
Kent, Mr. Hovind or even "hey you," if it will make them feel
better.[...]If you are looking for someone with advanced degrees in science, I do not have them [...]"By Mr. Hovind's own admission, I'd say the people who think he doesn't have a degree are right."[...] and have never claimed that I did."Calling yourself a doctor is claiming that you do."If you would like the names of scientists who support the young earth creationist position [...]"No, I would not like names, I would like evidence. Listing names is committing the fallacy of authority."I only claim to have [...] the common sense to know that the universe is too complex to have happened without an incredibly smart designer [...]"If scientists relied on common sense alone, Quantum Theory would not be known today."[...] Darwin's only degree was in theology yet he is often called a great scientist in textbooks today. Who and what determines who gets to be called a "scientist" [...] ?"Who: other scientists.
What: doing science."Its [sic] in email format so it does look a little weird while reading."You could at least have spent a little effort, it really isn't that hard."Hopefully you guys realize he is a real Doctor."Erm... nope. Can't say that I do."The message speaks for itself."That's the only thing in your post that I agree with, though it may not be in the manner you would like.Cheers.

You can be a doctor without having advanced degrees in science. At least come to the conclusion that he is a doctor.
And I'm confused on what you mean by Cheers?------------------
"I believe in christianity as I believe the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else."-C.S. Lewiscontact me for any reason at: messenjahjr@yahoo.com

Not if you want to be "Dr. Dino" and talk about science. If your doctorate isn't in science, then you can't use it to suggest an authority of science. That's exactly what he has done, however, and what makes him a charlitan. No one doubts that he has a piece of paper that says "PH.D" on it. It's the validity of that paper in reference to evolutionary science that has yet to be established.What does he do with his doctorate in education? What great education theory has he developed? What was his thesis material? It's a salutation where (s)he's from. It just means "thanks and goodbye". Around where I'm (and probably you too) from we say something like "Sincerely".

"And I'm confused on what you mean by Cheers?Trust me, that's not the only thing you're confused about.
Anyway, pay attention to what Crashfrog says. (S)he actually does have a clue.Cheers.[This message has been edited by Parasomnium, 08-08-2003]

It's "he", in fact. (I couldn't remember if you'd specified a gender, and I hate to make assumptions.) And I appreciate the sentiment, thanks.

MessenjaH, did you email Dr. Hovind and that initial post was his reply?