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Author
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Topic: WHAT GOD THINKS OF FUNDAMENTALISM
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Cold Foreign Object 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3074 days) Posts: 3417 Joined: 11-21-2003
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Message 1 of 222 (113686)
06-08-2004 7:50 PM
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Content erased due to many errors. The argument contained no errors, but there were too many spelling and grammatical errors. Ray Edited by Cold Foreign Object, : see post
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AdminBrian
Inactive Member
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Message 2 of 222 (113780)
06-09-2004 5:44 AM
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Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
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Trixie
Member (Idle past 3732 days) Posts: 1011 From: Edinburgh Joined: 01-03-2004
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Beg to differ!
All Protestants are fundamentalists? Would you care to back that up, please, because it flies in the face of my personal experience of Protestants. As for what Dr Scott has to say about fundamentalists, well, I'm not surprised. Who the hell is he to say who is worth saving and who isn't? Is he God?? I know he is in your eyes, but when he comes out with crap like that he shows his true colours. We're getting back to the hatred of any Christians who don't share your particular brand of Christianity. Yes, Christianity is about the Gospels, and the Gospels talk an awful lot about love, love for yourself, love for your enemies, love for your neighbours and most of all, love for God. Oh, and if you feel that "hatred" is too strong a term, maybe you coud suggest a reason why he uses such a nasty name for them? Do you use that to talk to your friends? Is that a term you use when praying to God? Right, I'm off to recover from my op that I've just had, so might not be able to reply very quickly. Also if I don't make sense, it's the painkillers.
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Cold Foreign Object
Suspended Member (Idle past 3074 days) Posts: 3417 Joined: 11-21-2003
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Message 4 of 222 (114212)
06-10-2004 5:21 PM
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Reply to: Message 3 by Trixie
06-10-2004 4:33 PM
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Re: Beg to differ!
quote:
All Protestants are fundamentalists?
Where did I say that ? I am a Protestant and I am not a fundementalist. You are suddenly defending the fundies only because you hate Dr. Scott/me. What hypocrisy !
quote:
As for what Dr Scott has to say about fundamentalists, well, I'm not surprised. Who the hell is he to say who is worth saving and who isn't? Is he God??
Dr. Scott didn't say fundies are not worth saving - God through Paul did. Dr. Scott pointed out what Paul said and agreed with Paul. They are to be kicked out of the chruch because they VOID the gospel which is the very thing Christ's death accomplished. If you disagree then you disagree with Paul who was chosen by Jesus. God hates the fundies thats why He said to kick them out. Thats why He said in Galatians 1 that they are God damned. God said it Trixie whether you recognize it or not.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 3 by Trixie, posted 06-10-2004 4:33 PM | | Trixie has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 5 by jar, posted 06-10-2004 5:32 PM | | Cold Foreign Object has replied | | | Message 8 by Trixie, posted 06-10-2004 6:40 PM | | Cold Foreign Object has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: Beg to differ!
WILLOWTREE writes: Fundementalism was a BRANCH of Protestantism, but now it IS Protestantism, as they, the fundemantalists, have completely taken over Protestant Christianity. Like Trixie, I believe you and Dr. Scott go way too far on this.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Cold Foreign Object
Suspended Member (Idle past 3074 days) Posts: 3417 Joined: 11-21-2003
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Message 6 of 222 (114224)
06-10-2004 6:08 PM
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Reply to: Message 5 by jar
06-10-2004 5:32 PM
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Re: Beg to differ!
Then how much of Protestantism do you think is comprised of the fundies ? The OP defines fundementalism as any established church entity that requires any external conformity to Mosaic law as proof of conversion. This message has been edited by WILLOWTREE, 06-10-2004 05:09 PM
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 5 by jar, posted 06-10-2004 5:32 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 7 by jar, posted 06-10-2004 6:28 PM | | Cold Foreign Object has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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I don't think it matters.
The point has nothing to do with whether or not they are Protestant. And the points you are bringing up are little different than the attitude of the Fundamentalists themselves. It really doesn't matter what you or I think GOD thinks about Fundamentalism any more than it matters what GOD thinks of your relationship or my relationship. Religion is very personal between GOD and Worshiper. Until and unless, the Worshiper tries to force their belief system on others, it is strictly between God and Man.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Trixie
Member (Idle past 3732 days) Posts: 1011 From: Edinburgh Joined: 01-03-2004
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Re: Beg to differ!
I'm not defending fundamentalism in any way, shape or form. I'm questioning one of your opening remarks as I feel you have overstated your case. I'm asking you to back this up. I don't hate you, I don't hate Dr Scott, I don't hate anyone, to be quite honest and I'm very surprised that you think that God "hates". I'm not guilty of hypocrisy just because I asked you to justify your statement on Protestantism. By the way, Paul said it, not God. That is a fact. He may have been inspired by God and then again he may not have. I personally choose to believe in the God of love, the one who so loved the world that He gave His only Son, that whosoever believes in Him will not perish, but have everlasting life. I get this weird idea from the very same New Testament that you get your hate from. I get it from the Gospels which claim to report the life, works and words of Jesus, I get it from the teachings of Jesus, about loving your enemy, about loving your neighbour. I don't feel that I have the right or the moral authority from God to say what God thinks of people or their beliefs - I am not perfect like God is. I wouldn't dare presume to know His mind or his feelings outwith the teachings of Jesus. Willowtree, I don't hate you, far from it, but I can't understand how someone who is so strong in their Christian faith can find so much hate in the New testament.
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Cold Foreign Object
Suspended Member (Idle past 3074 days) Posts: 3417 Joined: 11-21-2003
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Message 9 of 222 (114239)
06-10-2004 6:51 PM
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Reply to: Message 7 by jar
06-10-2004 6:28 PM
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Re: I don't think it matters.
I have a source for this topic and I made my case. You OTOH, clearly say "I think" which makes your source at this point yourself. It DOES MATTER because the gospel is at stake. You are militantly anti - fundie in every other topic up until this point but now are willing to let them off the hook while invoking this "different strokes for different folks nonsense". Once again, show me from the Bible how I am wrong. Refute me line for line, verse for verse or please remain quiet. Go ahead and defend the fundies, but remember the Bible/Galatians speaks for God. My topic is aimed at the fundies who recognize the Bible is the eternal word of God. Unless you recognize the Bible as such anything you say is basically a non sequitor.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 7 by jar, posted 06-10-2004 6:28 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 10 by jar, posted 06-10-2004 6:56 PM | | Cold Foreign Object has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: I don't think it matters.
No, the Bible does NOT speak for GOD. And that is the same problem that I have with Literalists, Creationists and Fundamentalists. The Bible Does Not Speak For GOD. God speaks for God. And he speaks straight to the individual. The Map is Not the Territory. The Treasure Map is not the Treasure.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Cold Foreign Object
Suspended Member (Idle past 3074 days) Posts: 3417 Joined: 11-21-2003
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Message 11 of 222 (114248)
06-10-2004 7:26 PM
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Reply to: Message 8 by Trixie
06-10-2004 6:40 PM
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Re: Beg to differ!
quote:
ROMANS 9:13: As it is written, "Jacob I have loved, but Esau I have HATED."
The above verse from the N.T. is quoting God in Genesis. God hated Esau. This verse is quoted to make the point that God hates eveyone else who does what Esau did. You initiated John 3:16; why don't you offer a harmony of these two verses ?
quote:
JESUS from Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and HATE not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
quote:
JESUS from Matthew 10:34,35 Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. For I have come to "set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law
Its not wrong to hate as long as you hate what God hates. The God of love that you invoked is angry when His love/the gospel is voided by the traditions of the established church world. My topic clearly identifies the perps and God's thoughts about them. All you can do is offer politically correct nonsense that has nothing to do with theology. If you love the fundies so much then practice what you preach when they oppose you in science topics and social issues. Your sudden defense of them here is so obvious as but really a pretext to launch subjective non Biblical attacks against me and Dr. Scott. Trixie, refute the OP from the Bible or you have not a leg to stand on.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 8 by Trixie, posted 06-10-2004 6:40 PM | | Trixie has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 15 by Hangdawg13, posted 06-10-2004 10:54 PM | | Cold Foreign Object has not replied | | | Message 16 by Trixie, posted 06-10-2004 10:54 PM | | Cold Foreign Object has replied |
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Cold Foreign Object
Suspended Member (Idle past 3074 days) Posts: 3417 Joined: 11-21-2003
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Message 12 of 222 (114251)
06-10-2004 7:44 PM
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Reply to: Message 10 by jar
06-10-2004 6:56 PM
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Re: I don't think it matters.
quote:
The Bible Does Not Speak For GOD.
This is the claim of the Canon (OP) and we Protestants (Fundie and non fundie) bow to this claim. This topic is not about the claim of the Bible whether it is God's word or not. I dedicated much of the OP in establishing this fact but only to show non Protestants that we (fundie and non fundie Protestants) BOTH accept the Bible to be the word of God so I can proceed to demonstrate to everyone FROM their own source how it condemns them. Jar, I do not want to debate whether the Bible is the word of God or not - do you now understand why ?
quote:
God speaks for God. And he speaks straight to the individual.
BTW, what is the source for this belief ? thanks, WT
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 10 by jar, posted 06-10-2004 6:56 PM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 13 by jar, posted 06-10-2004 7:54 PM | | Cold Foreign Object has replied |
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: I don't think it matters.
BTW, what is the source for this belief ? He told me.
Aslan is not a Tame Lion
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Cold Foreign Object
Suspended Member (Idle past 3074 days) Posts: 3417 Joined: 11-21-2003
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Message 14 of 222 (114255)
06-10-2004 7:58 PM
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Reply to: Message 13 by jar
06-10-2004 7:54 PM
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Re: I don't think it matters.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 13 by jar, posted 06-10-2004 7:54 PM | | jar has not replied |
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Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 777 days) Posts: 1189 From: Texas Joined: 05-30-2004
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I Beg to differ!!!
Whoa there... buddy,
Its not wrong to hate as long as you hate what God hates. I "hate" when people use the passage about God loving Jacob and God hating Esau for this dangerous argument. I understand that you understand what you are saying, but many people would use this to justify many evils. I believe it is wrong to believe that God is emotional in the sense of human emotion. Human emotions are unstable, time-bound, and often sinful, but God never changes and never sins. It is impossible for finite beings such as ourselves to completely understand an infinite God. We can only come to approximations of greater and greater accuracy. "Hate" and "love in this passage is an anthropopathism: ascribing human characteristics to God so that we can better understand him. The word perhaps deceivingly translated as hate conveys God's attitude towards Esau.
"It is the glory of God to conceal a thing, but the honor of kings to search out a matter." Proverbs 25:2
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