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Author Topic:   Kansas State School Board At It Once Again
Demosthenes Fan
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 136 (188931)
02-27-2005 1:56 PM


Well here we go again. Kansas will once again put evolution on trial; this time in front of a three-member Board of Education subcommittee who will reside over a courtroom style hearing and then will make a recommendation to the full ten person panel of what the science curriculum should be. Here is the story from The Kansas City Star. I decided to put the full text on this OP, so that you will not have to register to view the article.
I have high doubts that the Creo/ID’ers will be successful. Sure they will probably win over the panel, but like usual, I do not see this holding up in the courts. Am I the only one that is optimistic that this latest ruse by the creationists will fail?
EVOLUTION TO GO ON ‘TRIAL' IN KANSAS
State plans 10-day hearing on issue
By DAVID KLEPPER The Kansas City Star Posted on Thu, Feb. 24, 2005
TOPEKA Kansas' evolution debate will play out in a 10-day, courtroom-style hearing this spring, with experts from both sides testifying before a school board panel.
On trial is the theory of evolution, and the verdict could go a long way in determining the science curriculum taught in state schools.
Evolution critics want school curriculum to include alternatives, or at least challenges, to the theory.
Hearing dates are not yet set. The public may attend the hearings but will not be allowed to speak.
A three-member Board of Education subcommittee will hold the hearings and report its findings to the full board before members vote on the science standards.
Proponents of the idea of intelligent design say the hearing will give them an opportunity to show the evolution's weaknesses, and why alternatives to the theory should be taught too.
Intelligent design is the idea that a higher power has directed life's development.
The controversy over evolution is the big dog on the porch the 800-pound gorilla, said board Chairman Steve Abrams, of Arkansas City, who also leads the subcommittee. Abrams said the hearings could be useful and enlightening to everyone in the state.
Topics will include how to teach evolution, its validity as a theory and the definition of science.
But supporters of current standards say the hearings could make Kansas the laughingstock of the nation, much as in 1999, when the board voted to de-emphasize evolution in the state's curriculum, leaving the decision to teach evolution up to local districts. Supporters also worry that the hearings will favor rhetoric over hard science, especially before a panel that is critical of evolution.
The perception among many of my colleagues is this is rigged, said Steve Case, a University of Kansas research scientist who leads the state science curriculum committee. I have a terrible fear for Kansas that this could be portrayed as a Scopes trial.
Case was referring to the 1925 trial of Tennessee high school teacher John Scopes, who was charged with breaking the law by teaching evolution.
Case, asked by the committee to find scientists to defend evolution, said he wasn't sure he could find people who would submit to the hearings.
The 26-member committee, made up of scientists and educators, has been reviewing the curriculum since June. The panel held a hearing in Topeka on Wednesday to hear from the public.
The state periodically reviews its curriculum, but this year's review of science standards took on an added controversy in January when conservatives critical of evolution assumed the majority of the 10-member school board.
Thursday's hearing brought out about 150 residents, mostly from Manhattan, Topeka and Lawrence. They represented the diversity of the debate: defiant creationists and unapologetically secular professors, as well as Christian evolutionary biologists, scientists who reject the theory and professors who worry new standards would disadvantage students in an increasingly high-tech society.
John Millam, a software engineer with a doctorate in physics, left work early in Kansas City to come to the hearing at a Topeka hotel. The Mission resident said he doesn't want the panel studying science standards to veer too far in any direction.
 The scientists say, ‘We're right.' The creationists say, ‘We're right,' Millam said. Science should be neutral.
Admin — I looked to see if a thread was already started on this I didn’t see one, if there is, please feel free to kill this proposed topic.
This message has been edited by Admin, 04-20-2005 04:05 PM

Replies to this message:
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 Message 8 by jar, posted 02-27-2005 8:06 PM Demosthenes Fan has not replied
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AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 136 (188949)
02-27-2005 3:20 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
christian atheist
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 136 (188969)
02-27-2005 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Demosthenes Fan
02-27-2005 1:56 PM


Beware of what you wish for
I think this will end up being a good thing. Lots of people don't understand the meaning of the word science, theory, and evolution. Hopefully, this trial will clear up the misconceptions that people have.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Demosthenes Fan, posted 02-27-2005 1:56 PM Demosthenes Fan has not replied

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1660 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 4 of 136 (188971)
02-27-2005 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Demosthenes Fan
02-27-2005 1:56 PM


looks to me like a staged event with the trappings to appear legitimate while the decision has already been made.
perhaps they are looking for verification that they won't look too stupid?
sounds like a good event for a little guerilla protest?

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1660 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 5 of 136 (188977)
02-27-2005 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by christian atheist
02-27-2005 4:12 PM


Re: Beware of what you wish for
I agree that ultimately the result will be as you say. but I expect this event to be pretty much a charade.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by christian atheist, posted 02-27-2005 4:12 PM christian atheist has not replied

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 122 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 6 of 136 (189010)
02-27-2005 7:39 PM


I just got a big fat error message and lost 30 minutes worth of post with serious words.
Long post short, fat chance the scientists will be able to convince the unwashed masses. We all know the creos will win by using strawman and deception.

Replies to this message:
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custard
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 136 (189014)
02-27-2005 7:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Demosthenes Fan
02-27-2005 1:56 PM


it makes me sick
This crap makes school vouchers and home schooling sound better by the minute.
Then again, maybe part of this is the fault of evolutionists. If they'd hand out the latest dissertations and scientific publications for free on the street corner with easy to follow cartoons like this, we wouldn't have these problems.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by coffee_addict, posted 02-27-2005 8:07 PM custard has replied
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jar
Member (Idle past 94 days)
Posts: 34140
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 8 of 136 (189016)
02-27-2005 8:06 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Demosthenes Fan
02-27-2005 1:56 PM


It's even worse since I understand the Legislature is once again introducing an anti-evolution bill as well. In addition we can expect additional attacks at the National level, most likely through stealth legislation, amendments attached to unrelated bills.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 122 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 9 of 136 (189017)
02-27-2005 8:07 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by custard
02-27-2005 7:49 PM


Re: it makes me sick
I don't know whether you're serious or not, but I have no doubt that it is one of the reasons why creos have it so easy with the crowd. They know how to please people. They are willing to put chocolate pudding around crap and sell it as candy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by custard, posted 02-27-2005 7:49 PM custard has replied

Replies to this message:
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sidelined
Member (Idle past 6163 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 10 of 136 (189018)
02-27-2005 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by custard
02-27-2005 7:49 PM


Re: it makes me sick
custard
ROTFLMAO. Can you IMAGINE Chick tracts on "Discrete Gauge Symmetries Baryon Number and Large Extra Dimensions" or "Release of Brain Mitochondrial Hexokinase by Acidic Proteins and Macromolecular Polyanions."
Try putting that in comic form for the masses people.Priceless!

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1660 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 11 of 136 (189021)
02-27-2005 8:12 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by coffee_addict
02-27-2005 7:39 PM


We all know the creos will win by using strawman and deception.
to say nothing of the gish gallop, numerous logical fallacies and top it off with the argument from incredulity.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAAmerican.Zen[Deist
{{{Buddha walks off laughing with joy}}}

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by CK, posted 02-27-2005 8:16 PM RAZD has replied

  
CK
Member (Idle past 4383 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 12 of 136 (189022)
02-27-2005 8:16 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by RAZD
02-27-2005 8:12 PM


EVOLUTION IS A THEORY NOT A FACT. IF WE HAD PROOF FOR IT IT WOULD BE TRUE. EVOS SUCKZ.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by RAZD, posted 02-27-2005 8:12 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1660 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 13 of 136 (189025)
02-27-2005 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by CK
02-27-2005 8:16 PM


yes SuZaNNe ... oops that's another board ...
LOl.

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custard
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 136 (189026)
02-27-2005 8:25 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by coffee_addict
02-27-2005 8:07 PM


Re: it makes me sick
Half serious actually. Sideline pretty much illustrated the difficulty of putting out anything like that (freaking hilarious if someone did it though).
Of course creos would argu that evos already do it with shows like Dinosaurs, the Land Time Forgot, etc. etc.
But you are right. I honestly think one of the appeals of creationism is that for many people it is easier to believe "God did it" than "it was just some random event." Like some sort of distorted Occam's Razor: we feel more comfortable with explanations that have a purpose behind them than those that don't.
Why else would Astrology and folk superstitions be so pervasive.
Which do you find easier to believe:
A- You were put here on the earth for a purpose, your life has meaning.
B- Your life is meaningless, and it doesn't matter if you, your family, or your entire species ever existed.
What's going to be easier for the folks in Kansas to believe? People exist as part of a plan, or as the result of a random mutation that could have just as easily not have happened?
This message has been edited by custard, 02-27-2005 20:27 AM
This message has been edited by custard, 02-27-2005 20:28 AM

This message is a reply to:
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 122 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 15 of 136 (189029)
02-27-2005 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by custard
02-27-2005 8:25 PM


Re: it makes me sick
custard writes:
People exist as part of a plan, or as the result of a random mutation that could have just as easily not have happened?
I for one would have preferred wings over brain power.

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