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Author Topic:   Evolution
Lemming
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 56 (22405)
11-12-2002 10:26 PM


k this is my first post in this forum so go easy on me plus i'm only 19 years old and still have time to evolve,
right i want to throw the entire theory of Evulution right out the window this is a scientific mess there is no facts to support Evolution on a large scale such as that in the Human theory
i would like to make the following point to support my words
if we evolved from monkeys there would be half man half monkeys walking around now that i can't prove but neither can those so called scientists that study Evolution, also i would like to make a interesting point about the pyramids after all if there is evolution there is devolution and why all them years ago could humans build such works of art and aline them with stars in far away galaxies why on earth can't we do it now "Reason" "Devolution" "No" and "Yes" the reason behind this is we came from a more advanced form of life then that of now maybe another planet to support these words Nasa just took some picture of a star in space that creates a energy discharge every so ofter they have captured a few of these energy discharges on film and the pictures show a bow of light (pictures here http://freespace.virgin.net/...sion2000.web/arts/Eclipse.htm)
in the bible it states Genesis 9:13 I do set my bow in the cloud and it shall be for a token of a covenant between me and the earth.
Genesis 9:14 And it shall come to pass when I bring a cloud over the earth that the bow shall be seen in the cloud.
Genesis 9:16 And the bow shall be in the cloud and I will look upon it that I may remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is upon the earth.
Meaning someone has either look up at space with a high powered telescope all those millions of years ago or someone has been past this star before for that matter been in space millions of years before the Americans landing on the moon, i have always believed in advanced forms of life but not on this planet we did evolve we just came from elsewhere hope my words interest you
i don't doubt evolution on a minor scale but the monkey to human theory well lets just say someone had a wild vision
will be interested to see what the reply to this would be will check back in few days till then think about it

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by TrueCreation, posted 11-12-2002 10:31 PM Lemming has not replied
 Message 3 by Andya Primanda, posted 11-12-2002 10:55 PM Lemming has not replied
 Message 12 by gene90, posted 11-13-2002 4:11 PM Lemming has not replied
 Message 53 by Jesus, posted 11-16-2002 4:27 AM Lemming has not replied

  
TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 56 (22407)
11-12-2002 10:31 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Lemming
11-12-2002 10:26 PM


"check back in few days till then think about it "
--don't have time to contribute right this momment, but check back late tomorrow, you may have many responses by then, this is an active and intelligent forum.
------------------

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Lemming, posted 11-12-2002 10:26 PM Lemming has not replied

  
Andya Primanda
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 56 (22411)
11-12-2002 10:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Lemming
11-12-2002 10:26 PM


I don't know why creationists never get around this argument but...
1. Sure, one step in our ancestry might have been a monkey. But menkeys do not have to be extinct just because we evolved from some ancient primates. I mean, just look at your parents. After you are born, should they cease to exist? No, and in fact they might still produce more children.
2. Half-man/half-monkey: If I should take your words at face falue then... gibbons, orangutans, chimpanzees, gorillas, bonobos are the half-man/half-monkeys still living now. They (might or might not) represent stages in human evolution.
Anyway, just a question, do you know the difference between monkeys and apes? Creationists seem to be deliberately mixing the two.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Lemming, posted 11-12-2002 10:26 PM Lemming has not replied

  
Lemming
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 56 (22414)
11-12-2002 11:27 PM


While apes and monkeys are both primates, and are part of the same primate suborder, there are lots of differences between them. There are also lots of other sorts of primates. The distinction between different primate groups is based on physical characteristics and evolutionary ancestry.
The order of primates is characterized by animals with forward-facing eyes and highly flexible arms, legs and fingers. This body structure evolved as an adaptation for life in the trees: Primates have flexible limbs and grasping hands so they can move from branch to branch. The forward-facing eyes are also an adaptation for life in this environment: They give primates excellent depth perception, allowing them to accurately judge the distance between trees.
The 235 modern primate species are divided up into two suborders -- the prosimians and the anthropoids. The prosimians, made up of lemurs and similar animals, are the more primitive group. They exhibit lower intelligence and they more closely resemble other mammal groups (they typically have whiskers and extended snouts, for example). The prosimians split off from the evolutionary line leading to humans relatively early. Anthropoids, commonly called the "higher primates," comprise the rest of the species in the primate order. Anthropoids vary considerably in size, geographical range and behavior, but they all have flat faces, small ears and relatively large, complex brains.
Within the suborder of anthropoids, primates are grouped into monkeys, apes and hominids. The easiest way to distinguish monkeys from the other anthropoids is to look for a tail. Most monkey species have tails, but no apes or hominids do. Monkeys are much more like other mammals than apes and humans are. For example, most monkeys cannot swing from branch to branch, as apes and humans can, because their shoulder bones have a different structure. Instead, monkeys run along the tops of branches. Their skeletal structure is similar to a cat, dog or other four-footed animal, and they move in the same sort of way. On the evolutionary line leading to humans, monkeys split off long before apes did.
The apes, which include gorillas, chimpanzees, orangutans and gibbons, are much more like human beings than monkeys or lower primates are. They have the same basic body structure, possess a high level of intelligence and may exhibit similar behavior. Chimpanzees, humans' closest living relatives, use simple tools extensively and even have culture to some degree. Different chimpanzee social groups develop their own unique tendencies and behaviors, which may be in stark contrast to the behaviors of another group. Gorillas, chimpanzees and orangutans exhibit extensive language capability as well, though they do not have the necessary physiological adaptations to produce speech. Scientists have taught apes of all three species to use sign language, as well as special computer keyboards. Apes have even invented their own words in these languages, demonstrating higher cognitive ability.
Hominids are distinguished from apes mainly by mode of locomotion. While apes predominantly use all four limbs to move along the ground, hominids have developed upright bipedal walking -- that is, they walk erect, using only their hind limbs. Switching from quadrupedal walking to bipedal walking was a crucial development in man's evolution because it freed up our ancestors' hands. This allowed them to carry and use tools while walking, which played a significant role in the development of civilization. Humans and extinct hominids are also characterized by large brains and advanced reasoning capabilities.
To make a long story short, "ape" and "monkey" are not synonymous. Apes, such as gorillas and chimpanzees, have evolved along parallel lines with human beings, and are quite close to us in a number of respects (chimpanzees and humans share 98 percent of their genetic material). On the evolutionary tree, apes are no more monkeys than we are.
i think that abot covers it and this is minor Evolution Still nothing on a large scale like monkey to human ape to human also this doesn't support the theory of half man half monkey

  
Lemming
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 56 (22417)
11-12-2002 11:41 PM


Mankind's oldest ancestor first appeared some 4-5 million years ago in the savannah of East Africa, modern-day Kenya and Tanzania.
the signs of first Humans was between 1-2 million years ago that means it took 3-4 million years for apes to turn to humans and well there is another 1-2 million years after where these first humans failed to evolve they got intelligent but didn't evolve why is this ?also puts evolution into doubt doesn't it
apes can evolve for 3-4 million years to humans but humans can't evolve further in 1-2 millions years half the time it took apes to evolve weird theory of evolution that is i must admitt

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Quetzal, posted 11-13-2002 1:25 AM Lemming has not replied

  
Quetzal
Member (Idle past 5872 days)
Posts: 3228
Joined: 01-09-2002


Message 6 of 56 (22425)
11-13-2002 1:25 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Lemming
11-12-2002 11:41 PM


This is an extraordinarily bizarre exchange. Are you arguing with yourself or are there really two of you with the same username? Your post 4 refutes your own post 1 - and looks like it was written by two completely different people. Whazzupwiththat?
[This message has been edited by Quetzal, 11-13-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Lemming, posted 11-12-2002 11:41 PM Lemming has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by gene90, posted 11-13-2002 4:16 PM Quetzal has not replied

  
Lemming
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 56 (22488)
11-13-2002 11:16 AM


o.k looks at it this way then if we evolved from apes because we have the same genetic make up we are looking at the apes of today not the apes of 1-2 million years ago if we evolved so did they
and plus why would a ape suddenly change its life style and jump of of a tree and pick up a tool and start working and evolving into a human if it was already living healthy lives in trees it wouldn't unless something was coming up the trees to hunt them and had similar abilities of the ape so my theory is this the apes 4-5 million years ago evolved into the ape of today and the reason the humans force the apes at that time out the trees and minor evolution change them to what they are today
i don't belive in the theory of evolution on a large scale lets look at something else to support what i am trying to say
Neandertals Early Man became extinct are 28-30000BC now for some reason these was around for a long time before that of modern Humans now this was humans of some sort now if they noticed a danger to there way of life they would try and take out that danger just like the modern human if evolution is true the neandertals would have noticed a change in the ape behavier and would have started killing and hunting apes to protect there way of life long before the modern man came about so why didn't they
reason mans pressence on this planet came about very fast not over a long period of time this puts evolution into doubt also would like to make another theory about the pyramids this time about the way modern man said they was built the pyramids was built by 100.000 men but if you look at the popluation in egypt at the time where would they find 100.000 men a how would they be able to support 100.000 men over quiet some time with food and water theory they wouldn't meaning the pyramids was proberley built by a small number of men over the same period of time lets say 10,000 men with the technology of today has you can now see this supports a theory of a more advanced life form then that of now and even if my theory is totally wrong and the pyramids was built by 100.000 men then they would still be more advanced then today so evolution has been put into doubt twice so could there be devolution at work here because basic if we did evolve at some stage we devolved because its clear to see that early man was clever then we are now also if we evolved over a long period stop us from evolve and made us de-evolve ????
there are a bunch of facts that need to be looked at i feel some of you are looking at only half of the facts that are pressent
anyway waiting on a reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Karl, posted 11-13-2002 11:38 AM Lemming has not replied

  
Karl
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 56 (22489)
11-13-2002 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Lemming
11-13-2002 11:16 AM


quote:
Originally posted by Lemming:
o.k looks at it this way then if we evolved from apes because we have the same genetic make up we are looking at the apes of today not the apes of 1-2 million years ago if we evolved so did they
Indeed. Part of the difference in our DNA is our evolution, part is theirs. The smallness of the difference is shown to be even more significant by this observation.
quote:
and plus why would a ape suddenly change its life style and jump of of a tree and pick up a tool and start working and evolving into a human if it was already living healthy lives in trees it wouldn't unless something was coming up the trees to hunt them and had similar abilities of the ape so my theory is this the apes 4-5 million years ago evolved into the ape of today and the reason the humans force the apes at that time out the trees and minor evolution change them to what they are today
The start of human evolution seems to coincide with the period when the Rift Valley opened, and the climate and flora changed from forest to open plains. That's why we left the trees - the trees were gone.
[b][quote]i don't belive in the theory of evolution on a large scale [/b][/quote]
Or in punctuation, either....
[b][quote]lets look at something else to support what i am trying to say
Neandertals Early Man became extinct are 28-30000BC now for some reason these was around for a long time before that of modern Humans now this was humans of some sort now if they noticed a danger to there way of life they would try and take out that danger just like the modern human if evolution is true the neandertals would have noticed a change in the ape behavier and would have started killing and hunting apes to protect there way of life long before the modern man came about so why didn't they [/b][/quote]
Could you restate this in English sentences because I honestly don't know what you're trying to say.
[b][quote]reason mans pressence on this planet came about very fast not over a long period of time this puts evolution into doubt
[Karl inserts the paragraph break that might make sense of this....]
(I) also would like to make another theory about the pyramids this time about the way modern man said they was built the pyramids was built by 100.000 men but if you look at the popluation in egypt at the time where would they find 100.000 men a how would they be able to support 100.000 men over quiet some time with food and water theory they wouldn't meaning the pyramids was proberley built by a small number of men over the same period of time lets say 10,000 men with the technology of today has you can now see this supports a theory of a more advanced life form then that of now and even if my theory is totally wrong and the pyramids was built by 100.000 men then they would still be more advanced then today so evolution has been put into doubt twice so could there be devolution at work here because basic if we did evolve at some stage we devolved because its clear to see that early man was clever then we are now also if we evolved over a long period stop us from evolve and made us de-evolve ????[/b][/quote]
What you are trying to say appears to be that you don't understand how a pre-industrial society built the pyramids - is that right? I'm not an expert on Egyptology, so I suggest you research the subject and find out.
[b][quote]there are a bunch of facts that need to be looked at i feel some of you are looking at only half of the facts that are pressent
anyway waiting on a reply[/B][/QUOTE]
No. It'll surprise you to learn that the majority of scientists are intelligent people who have actually dedicated their life's work to answering just these sort of questions. The way some anti-evolutionists speak, you'd imagine that they expect the scientists to turn round and say "Ooooh! I never thought of that! Doh!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Lemming, posted 11-13-2002 11:16 AM Lemming has not replied

  
Lemming
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 56 (22496)
11-13-2002 12:17 PM


Neandertals Early Man became extinct around 28-30000BC now for some reason these was around for a long time before that of modern Humans now the neandertals was human of some sort now if they noticed a danger to there way of life they would try and take out (destroy) that danger just like the modern human if evolution is true the neandertals would have noticed a change in the ape behavier long before they became human and would have started killing and hunting apes to protect their (neandertals) way of life long before the modern man came about so why didn't they
Could you restate this in English sentences because I honestly don't know what you're trying to say.
Hows that?
"The start of human evolution seems to coincide with the period when the Rift Valley opened, and the climate and flora changed from forest to open plains. That's why we left the trees - the trees were gone."
if the rift valley opened up and took away all the trees there would have been a very great lose of life in this area no tree living mammals would have servived.... why one they wouldn't be able to addapt to the new climate quick enough and even if they did evolution would be very very slow
and another thing is if the first apes start to evolve into humans in the rift valley why is there Scupltures of Afica man in south america after the first evolution from apes to human started in america that means the american humans would have been more advanced then the afican humans and you would see scupltures of the first american Humans in other countries not the other way round

  
Lemming
Inactive Member


Message 10 of 56 (22498)
11-13-2002 12:27 PM


and another thing is if the first apes start to evolve into humans in the rift valley why is there Scupltures of Afica man in south america after the first evolution from apes to human started in america that means the american humans would have been more advanced then the afican humans and you would see scupltures of the first american Humans in other countries not the other way round
You can ignore this bit got confused with soemthing lol it happens

  
Lemming
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 56 (22516)
11-13-2002 2:18 PM


Would like you to answer this question agains this time i will add more facts on this subject but this time not about the pyramids this time to throw your theory of a pre-industrial society out the window
(I) also would like to make another theory about the pyramids this time about the way modern man said they was built the pyramids was built by 100.000 men but if you look at the popluation in egypt at the time where would they find 100.000 men a how would they be able to support 100.000 men over quiet some time with food and water theory they wouldn't meaning the pyramids was proberley built by a small number of men over the same period of time lets say 10,000 men with the technology of today has you can now see this supports a theory of a more advanced life form then that of now and even if my theory is totally wrong and the pyramids was built by 100.000 men then they would still be more advanced then today so evolution has been put into doubt twice so could there be devolution at work here because basic if we did evolve at some stage we devolved because its clear to see that early man was clever then we are now also if we evolved over a long period stop us from evolve and made us de-evolve ????
Explain this fact that millions of bottles have been found in eygpt these bottle was made of of the hardest stone on earth and was carved to perfection, however how did they carve out the inside of the bottle ? "Easy they made the bottle in 2 halfs and glue them together" nope because the bottles have no glue marks they are perfectly carved and also this stone material can only be carve with diamonds how did they get these tools with diamond inserted carving edges in the bottle and why has there been now discovery of these tools and another thing is what they did with these bottles can not be done today and even if we could we wouldn't be able to mass produse them like they did so where is the theory behind a pre-industrial society there is none we can look at an industrial society more advanced then that of today or a advanced life form with the knowledge of technology that has been forgotten in time....
______________________________________________________________________
What you are trying to say appears to be that you don't understand how a pre-industrial society built the pyramids - is that right? I'm not an expert on Egyptology, so I suggest you research the subject and find out.
______________________________________________________________________
look like i don't need to research the subject i think you should research the subject of a industrail society more advanced then that of any later day industry...... or maybe even look at the future of mankind to determine the past where are advancing fast whats the chance of somewhere in space there are humans more advanced then us after all there is 49.000.000 planets that match the same genetic profile of Earth
if not more .......

  
gene90
Member (Idle past 3823 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 12 of 56 (22532)
11-13-2002 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Lemming
11-12-2002 10:26 PM


[QUOTE][B]if we evolved from monkeys there would be half man half monkeys walking around now that i can't prove but neither can those so called scientists that study Evolution[/QUOTE]
[/B]
Nope, they're all extinct. But haven't you heard of Java Man? Australopithecus? We don't have *all* the transitionals...but if evolution did not happen why are there any transitionals at all?
And why were there ever Neanderthals if evolution did not happen. (And no, Neanderthals are not human ancestors).
[QUOTE][B]also i would like to make a interesting point about the pyramids after all if there is evolution there is devolution and why all them years ago could humans build such works of art[/QUOTE]
[/B]
Why would there be "devolution"? Also, why would it be manifest on such a small time scale? No scientist out there has made a claim for "devolution".
[QUOTE][B]all them years ago could humans build such works of art and aline them with stars in far away galaxies[/QUOTE]
[/B]
The pyramids are not aligned to any stars in "far away galaxies" they are aligned after the three stars in Orion's belt. Those stars are very much in our galaxy.
[QUOTE][B]support these words Nasa just took some picture of a star in space that creates a energy discharge every so ofter they have captured a few of these energy discharges on film and the pictures show a bow of light[/QUOTE]
[/B]
But the verses from Genesis were obvious talking about something else.
[QUOTE][B]Meaning someone has either look up at space with a high powered telescope all those millions of years ago[/QUOTE]
[/B]
Genesis was "millions of years ago" ?
[QUOTE][B]but the monkey to human theory well lets just say someone had a wild vision[/QUOTE]
[/B]
There is a tremendous amount of evidence you must ignore.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Lemming, posted 11-12-2002 10:26 PM Lemming has not replied

  
gene90
Member (Idle past 3823 days)
Posts: 1610
Joined: 12-25-2000


Message 13 of 56 (22535)
11-13-2002 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Quetzal
11-13-2002 1:25 AM


Quetzal;
It looks strange because Message 4 was plagiarized from this site:
Is there a difference between monkeys and apes? | HowStuffWorks

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Quetzal, posted 11-13-2002 1:25 AM Quetzal has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Lemming, posted 11-13-2002 6:01 PM gene90 has replied

  
Lemming
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 56 (22547)
11-13-2002 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by gene90
11-13-2002 4:16 PM


Thank you Gene you got that right yes and i understand what that site was trying to say but still disbelieve we evolved from monkey/apes why there are 235 modern primate species living today yet not one of them can talk apart from the human why is this surely some of them would have evolved to talk
plus there is no theory and evidence behind the Apeman which would have come into play somewhere along the line of evolutions , you haven't even found the bones of these so called Apemen which would sure have been around between 4-2 million years ago,
if we can find many different species of dinosaur (bones) which would be around 250 million years old why can't we find many different species of Apemen one logical answer would be the wasn't any or something triggered a rapid evolution stage of maybe 1 - 50000 years meaning there wouldn't have been a great number of dead Apemen so would be harder to find but what supports a rapid evolution period ???
but even the Rapid Evolution period is unsupport so we have got to look at something/Somewhere else for our origin...
[This message has been edited by Lemming, 11-13-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by gene90, posted 11-13-2002 4:16 PM gene90 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by gene90, posted 11-14-2002 4:06 PM Lemming has not replied
 Message 38 by gene90, posted 11-14-2002 4:11 PM Lemming has replied

  
Lemming
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 56 (22555)
11-13-2002 6:53 PM


o yea Gene i was stating the fact about the pyramids you failed to answer you just put the real facts in failed to answer the question and anyway its not about how and why they was built it was about the people who built them they had more knowledge than that of any later day Human "Correct" (Because we can't build them "Now") so if you want to belive in evolution you better consider devolution because from how i'm looking at it thats where its pointing to don't you agree
also lets see if you can answer the question about the bottle because thats the one that really gets on scientists nerves they have failed to answer it or did they choose to ignore it
just like you did about Devolution and the fact about the pyramids i brought into this
so far i have seen nothing in anyones comments to support evoluition and nothing to throw the theory of devolution out the window
look forword to see another reply
[This message has been edited by Lemming, 11-13-2002]

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by John, posted 11-13-2002 11:03 PM Lemming has not replied
 Message 17 by Lemming, posted 11-13-2002 11:18 PM Lemming has not replied
 Message 39 by gene90, posted 11-14-2002 4:15 PM Lemming has not replied

  
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