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Author | Topic: The infinite space of the Universe | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Agobot Member (Idle past 5558 days) Posts: 786 Joined: |
With this topic i'd like to discuss what problems would arise if we accept the idea that the space in the universe is infinite. Could this mean we have a very wrong idea about what "to exist" means? Wouldn't this mean that physical existence is impossible and life is an illusional perception of our minds? What scientific explanation could be given for the existence of an infinite universe? Wouldn't the existence of endless space automatically rule out the existence of parallel universes, a creator, a beginning, an end, a purpose? If we assume that the space of the universe is finite, what could happen when the expansion of the observable universe reaches the boundaries?
Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.
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Admin Director Posts: 13038 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
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Taz Member (Idle past 3319 days) Posts: 5069 From: Zerus Joined: |
Don't you think it's a bit too early to ask these kinds of questions? The only way to answer these questions is to simply pull stuff out of your ass like religionists do all the time. But for the rest of us heathens, give us a few million years then we'll have an answer for you.
I'm trying to see things your way, but I can't put my head that far up my ass.
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Admin Director Posts: 13038 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.1 |
Cool it!
Please, no replies.
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Libmr2bs Member (Idle past 5754 days) Posts: 45 Joined: |
One only has two choices - either the universe is infinite or finite. Both assumptions depend on the boundaries of time. For if time is finite, then the universe must be finite. If time isn't finite, then the universe can be either finite or infinite.
Time is only a comparison of cyclical events and invented by the human mind. If an event should only occur once, it would be impossible to relate it to another event without a measuring stick such as the sun rising every morning. And as the sun will rise at different times in the morning, we must understand that time isn't a perfect dimension. Einstein showed that the measuring stick of time can be warped and if the measurement of time can be influenced then our perception of the universe may be fraught with misconceptions. The boundary that is most important is the boundary established by the speed of light. What's interesting is that particles traveling faster than the speed of light would be imperceptible and we have no technology to determine if or if not there actually is a boundary. For instance if one believes in "God" then one must believe the boundary does not exist. Thus the dilemna of scientist (not science).
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Perdition Member (Idle past 3266 days) Posts: 1593 From: Wisconsin Joined: |
I don't think time is a comparison of cyclical events. Time is merely a comparison of events in general. Much like you can say "before I was born" and "after I was born." Any event has the ability to create at least a modicum of temporality, merely by being able to say "before" and "after."
What a cycle does is exactly what the scythe clock in Death's house in Terry Pratchett's "Discworld" series does. It chops time up into smaller bits, giving us, essentially, many befores and afters, and because we now have more than one, betweens.
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Agobot Member (Idle past 5558 days) Posts: 786 Joined: |
quote: "Hypothesis" I think somebody came up with this word many centuries ago. I really think it might be beneficial for this discussion... As for my personal opinion - life being so meaningless as it is, I think an infinite universe will just add more meaninglessness to the picture. Through my eyes, the whole universe looks like an aweful waste of matter and space and everyone looking for a meaning will meet a wall of indifference, coldness and lack of meaning and purpose. So, yes an infinite universe fits quite nicely in the picture of things. Edited by Agobot, : No reason given. Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 93 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
Is the universe considered infinite as such?
I thought current cosmological modls suggested that if you went in one direction fast enough (i.e. >>C), for long enough then you would eventually end up back where you started? This was my understanding and I am keen to be corrected if this is not the case?
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Agobot Member (Idle past 5558 days) Posts: 786 Joined: |
Wouldn't this mean that some of the galaxies at the far end of the universe would be turning up at the other end of the universe? So far(and i mean for the last 13.7 billion years) we have observed a constant and seemingly never-ending expansion of the universe. Will it ever reach a barrier? We don't know, but we do know that space is bigger than 30 billion light years across. And i see no reason to believe the expansion will ever hit a wall.
Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 93 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
Wouldn't this mean that some of the galaxies at the far end of the universe would be turning up at the other end of the universe? I don't think so. Not unless they were travelling in one direction faster than the rate of expansion, which itself exceeds the speed of light. I could well be completely talking out of my arse here. So I think we need some input from someone who actually has a knowledge of these concepts including the proposed shape of the universe, the rate of expansion and what the speed of light actually means in relation to moving bodies seperated by space in an expanding universe. Cavediver...?Son Guko...?
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Agobot Member (Idle past 5558 days) Posts: 786 Joined: |
Just to add some more controversy to the issue - an infinite space in the universe will pose new unknown problems. Like the infinite numbers of Big Bangs, infinite number of galaxies, stars and planets, infinte forms of life, infinite number of human twins, etc. It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense(not that the observable universe does anyway).
Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
And i see no reason to believe the expansion will ever hit a wall. The expansion never hitting a wall doesn't mean the universe has to be infinite, just unbounded. Are you sure you're not overlooking the differences between being infinite and being unbounded? The universe is finite and unbounded. Many people think that means infinite, but it doesn't.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Just to add some more controversy to the issue - an infinite space in the universe will pose new unknown problems. Like the infinite numbers of Big Bangs, infinite number of galaxies, stars and planets, infinte forms of life, infinite number of human twins, etc. It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense(not that the observable universe does anyway). Right on. The biggest reason for me to believe that the universe is finite is because it really just can't be infinite. It just doesn't make any sense that way.
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Agobot Member (Idle past 5558 days) Posts: 786 Joined: |
By Universe you mean space, right? So what's the difference between unbounded space and infinite space? A spherical model? What evidence is there to support this theory?
EDIT: Ooops. Spherical model of 3D empty space doesn't make too much sense Edited by Agobot, : No reason given. Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.
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Agobot Member (Idle past 5558 days) Posts: 786 Joined: |
Einstein is not helping us either:
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." -Albert Einstein Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.
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