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Author Topic:   Do you believe in a multiverse?
Thanos6
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 45 (62442)
10-23-2003 9:28 PM


That is, do you feel there's more than one universe out there?
If so, how many do you think there are? Just a few, or transfinite?
And here's what I'm really interested in: If you feel there's a heaven and hell, do you think there's one for each universe, or is there simply one 'group' heaven and 'group' hell that all souls go to? It'd be interesting to watch the souls of the same person from two different timelines meet... "Hi, I'm Thanos6 from Earth-3454353." "Pleased to meet you, I'm Thanos6 from Earth-987897."
Despite my light-hearted tone, I really am curious as to what you think.
-Thanos6 (who loves Back to the Future)
------------------
"When mankind falls into conflict with nature, monsters are born."
-Professor Hayashida, Godzilla 1985

Replies to this message:
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Beercules
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 45 (62567)
10-24-2003 11:28 AM


I have enough trouble dealing with this universe, so why add more? One is enough.
Seriously though, there doesn't seem to be any room for more than one infinite universe, unless you start getting into extra dimensions. 4 are all we have evidence for, and any others are ad hoc. Perhaps if you mean the many worlds interpretation of quantum theory, then I'd be more inclined to belief it. But that's only because the alternative seems circular.
[This message has been edited by Beercules, 10-24-2003]

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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 3 of 45 (62569)
10-24-2003 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Beercules
10-24-2003 11:28 AM


It isn't a matter of believe or not.
The speculations about such things are fun to contemplate. They may eventually lead to interesting areas of research.
There isn't enough information to guess at how likely other universes may or may not exist. It sits in the limbo of "interesting" but unknown for now.
This sort of thing is where the long, tentative fingers of the scientific process must probe out. Most of them will encounter deadends. Some will be where the maintstream of science will be in a century.

This message is a reply to:
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Rei
Member (Idle past 7013 days)
Posts: 1546
From: Iowa City, IA
Joined: 09-03-2003


Message 4 of 45 (62581)
10-24-2003 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Thanos6
10-23-2003 9:28 PM


One thing that I find as an interesting possibility is that all possible fundamental rulesets for universes may exist in parallel; the only reason that we only know of this one is that this is the one that happened to create us.
Of course, this would likely mean that it would be impossible to travel through, or even detect, other universes.
------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

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Will_Drotar
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 45 (66087)
11-12-2003 4:01 PM


I don't know whether I do or don't. Hi, BTW, I'm Will. I'm a theistic evolutionist, but also a fundamentalist Christian. I personally don't. I think it's interesting reading theory of how it might be possible. Of course, I'm in the same boat as the high school junior cause I just graduated from high school a few months ago. The only difference is that I'm an idiot. TTYL Jesus loves you!

Replies to this message:
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Brian
Member (Idle past 4960 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 6 of 45 (66092)
11-12-2003 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Will_Drotar
11-12-2003 4:01 PM


Hi,
I'm a theistic evolutionist, but also a fundamentalist Christian.
How do you harmonise these two stances?
I would have thought it impossible to be a fundamentalist Christian and a evolutionist, unless you have a restricted view of evolution.
Brian.

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msg3030
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 45 (82415)
02-03-2004 12:25 AM


how is it that in infinitesimal possibilitities of possibilities that we cannot interact with on this plane but can find on other universes, not be able to be accessed through wormholes and black holes, even when our closest possible alternate self is 4 X 10(to the 26th power) meteres away from us? in an infinite level of universes cannot the universe somewhat be cyclic in nature that falls back to ourselves? somewhat of a tunnel of universes that lead back to ourselves? and if wormholes and black holes can lead us, can they take us to unknown places and to other universes? which in turn can take us back to ourselves, which are not really ourselves, but infinite selves on different planes?

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 Message 8 by RingoKid, posted 02-03-2004 11:48 PM msg3030 has replied

  
RingoKid
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 45 (82909)
02-03-2004 11:48 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by msg3030
02-03-2004 12:25 AM


uh yeah...
I tried asking that and got nowhere cos it lies outside what can be proven by current models...
I even suggested that maybe black holes act as dispensors of energy and mass to keep the universe balanced around a fixed central expansion point...
I even came up with an analogy of a pebble dropped in a spherical pond with each wave being a different membrane of sorts expanding outwards...It was fun thinking about it
have a look in the "black holes for eta" thread and see if you can make some sense of it...

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sld
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 45 (82916)
02-04-2004 12:15 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Thanos6
10-23-2003 9:28 PM


I'm inclined to believe in a multiverse. It's a valid scientific hypothesis that has powerful explanatory properties. I would suspect that the number of universes or sub-universes is virtually infinite. The vast majority of them do not inflate though mind you.
I do not believe in a heaven or a hell or that we have a "soul", but if I did I'd prefer that there only be one heaven or hell. That would make sense for a monotheistic religion. If there's an aferlife, though, I'd prefer it to be reincarnation or maybe just some sort of post-existence where I can travel through space and time at my leisure and learn all about the multiverse. Of course, after a couple of hundred trillion years, I think that even I would be bored.
SLD

This message is a reply to:
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Mike Holland
Member (Idle past 484 days)
Posts: 179
From: Sydney, NSW,Auistralia
Joined: 08-30-2002


Message 10 of 45 (82971)
02-04-2004 5:21 AM


One version of the multiverse hypothesis is that every possibility split creates separate universes. For example, if you spin a coin, then the universe splits into one where it lands heads and one where it lands tails. This is a very simplistic example, and one has to dig into quantum theory to really grasp the idea of all possible things happening in one universe or another.
But this theory would imply that there is at least one universe where pennies always land heads, and there is no such thing as probability theory. I find this idea quite unacceptable, even as the wildest science fiction.
Mike.

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q3psycho
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 45 (82988)
02-04-2004 7:37 AM


Of course there are multiple universes. It really isn't very strange. We're like the savages who didn't know what was beyond the sea.

  
msg3030
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 45 (83632)
02-05-2004 8:00 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by RingoKid
02-03-2004 11:48 PM


i likesd the pebble theory but thought about a little....if a great force was dropped in a the great sphere of things creating the universes that we think of, wouldn't all those universes be the same and be predetermined? if you watch a pebble drop into the water the ripples it makes are identical to each other making for a thought that all universes would be the same out there which i think is untrue. i think something created one universe that spawned all the other universes out there, hence liking the point you made about the dispenser of energy in the form of black holes. that's a great thought..
question is can we travel through all those dispensers to see other sides? and i was thinking about expanding the connected multiunverses theory....all of our alternate selves must be cyclic and connected to something because they wouldn't be alternate versions of ourselves if they didn't connect to us somehow thus making all universes out there connected to our universe and influencing ourselves by the actions of alternate selves. have you ever had a radical shift of thinking or a change of behavior suddenly? it might be an alternate self in another universe doing something to influence you. something to drool over thanks for the reply

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ThingsChange
Member (Idle past 5926 days)
Posts: 315
From: Houston, Tejas (Mexican Colony)
Joined: 02-04-2004


Message 13 of 45 (83916)
02-06-2004 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Mike Holland
02-04-2004 5:21 AM


Mike Holland writes:
...every possibility split creates separate universes...But this theory would imply that there is at least one universe where pennies always land heads, and there is no such thing as probability theory.
The term "every possibility" may be resticted to the quantum level. I am not sure if you were assuming that, or if you were putting the possibility level at the 50/50 chance of a coin flip. I don't think the latter situation is necessarily a foregone conclusion. Maybe this is a bad example, but I could design a coin-flipper machine based on physics that makes one flip and always lands in the same side as it started. If it did not turn up the same, it would be called a miracle, because it would have to violate the laws of physics routinely in your example.
Your statement leads to another thought, however: What if you are right at some micro level (quantum or less?) that results in the consistency that you describe in a particular universe, and that consistency is what we call the laws of physics? Thus, another universe with different consistencies (patterns of probability) would have different laws of physics.

This message is a reply to:
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jak
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 45 (95316)
03-28-2004 2:57 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Thanos6
10-23-2003 9:28 PM


hah, that's an insanely crazy idea. i'm not saying it's not impossible though...!
you know, that would be an awesome movie idea, if it hasn't been done already ?
for the record, i think there's only 1 universe. what has ever given light to the idea of another universe? it's oouttta this world!

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Darwin Storm
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 45 (95318)
03-28-2004 3:54 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by jak
03-28-2004 2:57 AM


The idea of multiverses in intersting, but not really an idea that can be verified or falsified at this time. At this time I think almost all viewpoints on the matter are wild speculation, fun, but still speculation. I will just leave this in the "don't know" column, which means it may be possible, but not likely without some sort of evidence.

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Replies to this message:
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