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Author | Topic: Harun Yahya alert... again... :[ | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Andya Primanda Inactive Member |
sigh... am I the only one against Harun Yahya? You guys did a good job taking down ICR, AIG, Hovind, Behe, Dembski, Wells, DI, etc. but can't you see a bigger threat in the Harun Yahya company? This guy's holding the world in his hands!
WORLDWIDE TV CHANNELS THAT BROADCAST THE DOCUMENTARY FILMS OF HARUN YAHYA Australia Islamic TV in AustraliaAustralia Channel 31 (local channel in Perth) Australia Vision of Islam (sponsored by Australian Islamic College) Azerbaijan Government Television Bahrain Discover Islam Bosnia-Herzegovina NTV Bosnia-Herzegovina TV Srbac Canada Vision of Islam TV (Pakistan TV Network) Canada Canada National Learning Center Croatia A lot of local TV channels Germany A local TV that is dependent to AMT international Germany TD1 India WIN TV Indonesia Different TV channels Indonesia Ar Rahman TV Kazakhstan AS TV Malaysia TV3 and other TV channels Netherlands Feza TV Netherlands TTA TV Nigeria TV channels that are dependent to TV Authority Nigeria Edo Broadcasting Service Nigeria National TV Pakistan Indus Vision Pakistan Mutual Cable TV Serbia TV Gornji Milanovac Serbia TV Aleksinac Serbia TV Paracin Serbia TV Odzaci Serbia TV Vicom (Gradiska) S. Africa ITV Afrika Tanzania Zanzibar Cable TV Tanzania Cable local channel - Al Itrah Foundation Ukraine Zhisa TV UAE Al Majd TV UAE Dubai TV USA ACTV Cable Channel 21 USA Universal Truth USA Islam: A Guide to Human Excellence USA Amica TV USA Pakistan Zindabad TV USA Community Public Access Channel USA Islamic Information Service TV (Los Angeles) USA Arab American TV Chicago USA Islamic Foundation of America USA Islamic Center of Northeast Florida USA Cox TV (California) USA Zindabad TV USA Channel 77 Yemen Yemen TV Yugoslavia TV Jesenjin Yugoslavia Elmag TV (Montenegro) Yugoslavia Yu info Yugoslavia TV Valjevo [This message has been edited by Andya Primanda, 02-24-2003]
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Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
Sorry for the complacency. Maybe the threat will seem more immediate when I can actually get one of those stations.
--Percy
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 734 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
Andya - I agree with you that Yahya is fairly scary. He certainly has a slick website, and seems very well funded. I saw a mention of him on a Christian fundy website the other day to the effect of "I certainly don't agree with his Islamic slant, but he sure has done his homework on the evils of Evolution!" Spooky.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
Harun Yahya really doesn't have much presence outside the Islamic comunities. And what I've seen of his seems to recycle the same old rubbish Christian creationists use. Scary he might be, but how scary is he compared to Al-Qaeda ?
Really I think it is better for everybody right now if the fight against him is focussed within the Islamic community. There is enough hostility between Muslims and Western society already. If westerners attack Harun Yahya he'll likely use that to propaganda effect, using it to mear his Muslim opponents, too. If western society finds out more about Harun Yahya some of our more intolerant elements will probably use his existence as anti-Muslim propaganda. Looks like a no-win situation.
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wehappyfew Inactive Member |
Osama bin-Laden requires a strict fundamentalist support base. To the exent that Harun Yahya bolsters that scripture-literalist, narrow-minded, anti-science, anti-western mind-set, he is directly supporting terrorism - just as the KKK and neo-nazis in the U.S. frequently adopt Christian fundamentalist paradigms to further our own domestic kookisms.
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Andya Primanda Inactive Member |
I get your point. And I have a hard time myself doing an internal battle against such creationism. Not many Muslims are interested in science, but many are easily persuaded by the propaganda. In Indonesia, the most vocal proponents of Harun Yahya-ism is the political fundamnetalists, which are growing larger each time I checked.
Anyway, Harun Yahya, being a Turkish--the Turks are obsessed with being Western--are generally not anti-Western (just a little anti-Jew, but you'll find this stance in every Muslim). His [unorthodox] stance on the US/Iraq issue is 'sympathy to terrorist victims, Saddam please step down'. I made an ongoing rebuttal of his work, but my website's currently down. And they knew of it. Check his article 'Reply to Andya Primanda' (available in several languages).
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wj Inactive Member |
Co-incidentally I was directed to a Harun Yahya website by a creationist. I asked him if he was aware that this was a fundamentalist muslim writer - I am awaiting his reaction.
I also noticed one of Harun Yahya's related sites is self-described as follows: "Jesus will return to the world for a second time. He will unite all believers in God and bring peace to mankind, as proclaimed by the Prophet Mohammed and revealed in the Qur'an." I wonder how many fundamentalist christians would react to this assertion. It would appear that anti-evolution makes for strange bedfellows.
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Andya Primanda Inactive Member |
Actually that's a common theme in Islamic theology. We believe that Jesus was not crucified, but lifted by Allah to Heaven. In near-apocalyptic times, Jesus will return to earth as Imam Mahdi, the leader of Muslims, where he would break the cross and convert Christians to Islam.
[might be offensive]
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
I don't know if you are familiar with this website, but it might be useful. Maybe the people running it could be of help.
http://www.geocities.com/evrimkurami/
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Andya Primanda Inactive Member |
Recently the local religious student circle distributed this article as a pamphlet in my campus. How can I refute it? I have read Britten's PNAS paper but I am clueless on how to explain it to others in layman's terms. I sent a complaint letter to the student organization behind it, and I might expect a discussion with them. This should be a great chance to expose Harun Yahya.
Anyway...The "99 %" Myth is Dead Evolutionists Admit That Humans and Chimps Are Not Genetically Similar some excerpts: A recent study shows that the evolutionist propaganda on this issue-like many others-is completely false. Humans and chimps are not "99% similar" as the evolutionist fairy tale went on. Genetic similarity turns out to be less than 95 %. In a news story reported by CNN.com, entitled "Humans, chimps more different than thought", they report the following: There are more differences between a chimpanzee and a human being than once believed, according to a new genetic study. Biologists have long held that the genes of chimps and humans are about 98.5 percent identical. But Roy Britten, a biologist at the California Institute of Technology, said in a study published this week that a new way of comparing the genes shows that the human and chimp genetic similarity is only about 95 percent. Britten based this on a computer program that compared 780,000 of the 3 billion base pairs in the human DNA helix with those of the chimp. He found more mismatches than earlier researchers had, and concluded that at least 3.9 percent of the DNA bases were different. This led him to conclude that there is a fundamental genetic difference between the species of about 5 percent. ... When we look at genetic comparisons in general, we find surprising similarities which do not fit within the alleged evolutionary relationships between species. For example a genetic analysis has revealed a surprising 75 % similarity between the DNAs of nematode worms and man.iii According to the family tree made by evolutionists, the Chordata phylum, in which man is included, and Nematoda phylum were unrelated to each other even 530 million years ago. Thus, the % 70 similarity - a very high figure for humans and nematode worms, completely different and dissimilar life forms - does not imply any evolutionary relationship. On the other hand, the analyses carried on some proteins show man as close to some very different living beings. In a survey carried out by the researchers in Cambridge University, some proteins of terrestrial vertebrates were compared. Amazingly, in nearly all samples, man and chicken were paired as the closest relatives. The next closest relative was crocodile....
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Andya Primanda Inactive Member |
PaulK, the bad thing is, I can't read Turkish. Anybody can?
The website seems to be run by hardcore secularists, exactly the ones that Harun Yahya co. is after. I am not too sympathetic with the herdline secularists either.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
Most of the stuff apears to be available in English. Even if you are not sympathetic to their political and religious views they would seem to be a potentially useful source on the science and on what Harun Yahya is up to.
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Dr_Tazimus_maximus Member (Idle past 3217 days) Posts: 402 From: Gaithersburg, MD, USA Joined: |
Hi Andya, I agree with the threat posed by this jerk. I just have not had teh spare time recently due to job problems, unfortunately I am not alone as the Biotech sector in the DC area has taken a pounding recently. I will take a look at the "paper" and try to help with a laymans description of the flaws.
Oh, as to the other part of the post, no offense taken. Although there is documentation from Roman times of the Followers of Cristus (what the Romans called Jesus), who were followers of a criminal who had been put to death by the Romans. This likely means crusifixtion as this is how the Romans excecuted people in Judea, the Jews would have stoned him. Not that this means anything to me other than a historical fact/concept/idea. ------------------"Chance favors the prepared mind." L. Pasteur Taz
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wj Inactive Member |
Andya, as Yahya's explanation is that genetic similarities between humans and primates is due to common design rather than common ancestry, I think your strongest line of arguments is the shared pseudogenes. The presence of GLO pseudogenes is much better explained by common ancestry. Why would a divine creator burden the primate and human genomes with such junk? It seems to imply a divine creator who doesn't know how to do the job properly. And why do the distributions of shared pseudogenes reflect the ancestral relationships inferred by other evidences?
As to the exact degree of relatedness of humans and chimpanzees, what does it matter whether it is 99, 98 or 95%? I would challenge the creationists to show any genome comparisons which show another species more closely related to humans than chimpanzees or bonobos.
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Andya Primanda Inactive Member |
It's a sad time for Indonesian biologists this week, because they are helpless to counter the rising wave of Turkish creationism. Two Harun Yahya co. 'scientists' Ali Sadun & Omer Ilicalli (or are they the real Harun Yahya?) are currently giving conferences and press releases in Indonesia, invited by fundamnetalist organizations, without much opposition, but I fear they would win pulic support. Insonesians in general had a dislike for debates (our culture's so obsessed with 'harmony' ) so none thought of putting these guys in a debate. They would even visit my university for a book-launching session next week!
To WJ:Which papers can help me? I'd like to draw my ammunition from the primary literature. I've got some colleagues planning to write and publish a refutation of Harun Yahya-ism, but most of them are versed in philosophy and theology and they would wrote their criticism along their fields of expertise. They rely on me to be their scientific authority (and I'm not even a BSc, at least until next month). The only prominent scientist which appreciate the damage HY creationism migh inflict in the minds of Indonesians is Prof Teuku Jacob, the paleoanthropologist in charge of Java men fossils. Others are either ignorant or indifferent to this...
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