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Author Topic:   Justification For Evolution Within Creation
Len Lisenbee
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 14 (69181)
11-25-2003 9:46 AM


JUSTIFICATION FOR EVOLUTION WITHIN CREATION
HOW CAN CHRISTIANS PREACHING THE LITERAL BIBLE POSSIBLY JUSTIFY FOSSILS, THE OBVIOUS PRESENCE OF EVOLUTION, AND AN EARTH THAT IS ESTIMATED TO BE AT LEAST 6 BILLION YEARS OLD?
Christians do not have any doubt about it. God created the heavens and the earth. Furthermore, He did it all on the very first day of creation. That is absolute fact, and cannot be debated, at least according to us Christians.
Which begs the obvious question. How can we explain fossils, dinosaurs, man-like creatures that roamed the African veld more than two million years ago and all the obvious scientific evidence that proves beyond any doubt that evolution does, in fact, exist. Christians might say it proves God has a sense of humor, and He is playing a practical joke on scientists.
Biblical scholars have tried all sorts of different ways to fit the two together, but without very much success. The "Gap" theory is probably the most famous, but there are many others as well. However, none of them have been too widely accepted. Why? It seems the very Bible they are trying to justify works against them, and proves their various theories wrong.
So, here is my theory on that theory. Keep in mind that I am strictly a lay person, espousing my opinions only. I am a retired federal agent (criminal investigator) who likes to think outside the box. Every mystery has a logical, acceptable solution. And, I believe this mystery is no exception to that rule.
The primary problem in justifying evolution as being acceptable to Christianity is the language found in the first chapter of Genesis. Genesis 1:5 "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." Everything, according to the Bible, was done in "days". That just causes fits among Christians whenever evolution, fossils and other ancient things are discussed. The Bible, as it is written, and as it is translated literally, simply does not leave room for dinosaurs. Ah, but more on this subject in just a bit.
First we must discuss "time". In fact, there are three key aspects of time that must be noted. First, there is the nature of God. The entire key to logically discussing this subject lies in that very nature. You see, God exists and operates completely outside of time, at least as we know and understand it. His very Holy and absolutely omnipotent nature permits that existence. A year, a century, a millennium, a million years, a billion years, a hundred-billion years, does not matter a wit to God. Remember that He is the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. Furthermore, because of His absolutely omnipotent nature, there really is no true beginning or ending. There is only existing, and living. He is truly the ever-living God.
Next, we have to remember that "time", at least as we understand, record, and know it, did not really exist before Genesis, Chapter 11. At least, it didn't really exist for the Hebrew People, mainly because they did not then exist. That is a very important point that will be examined more thoroughly later in this essay.
And third, we have to understand that, during the first three "days" of creation, time did not really exist in any form! The sun and moon were not created until the fourth day. Therefore there could not have been a sunrise or sunset prior to the end of the fourth day of creation. Oh, I fully realize that Genesis 1:13 reads, "And the evening and the morning were the third day." And, I will successfully explain that Biblical fact a little later.
Now, with those facts in evidence, we continue our discussion. What, exactly, is a "day" to God who exists outside of time? How long was the first "day of creation? Was it roughly 24 hours? Or, maybe 24 billion years? That latter figure could easily be as a day to God, especially when you remember that time did not then exist. And, as a direct result of that fact, there can be absolutely no doubt that God created the heavens (three of them, in fact) and the earth. How He created them remains unknown. I believe He caused the "Big Bang" to occur as part of His Holy Plan for creating life on earth. I also believe He controlled that gigantic explosion completely to cause the firmament to be "created." Yes, it is a glorious scientific fact (if still unproven) that God created the heavens and the earth, people!
The story contained in Genesis 1:9-13, the "Third Day," could very well describe Rodinia (the first "world-continent, which was pre-Pangaea), the giant super-continent that modern science tells us existed way back when. In fact this giant land mass may have existed as far back as the Precambrian time period, which was more than 4.5 billion years ago! Just keep in mind that "time", with respect to this discussion, did not exist back then.
God created "animal life" a long time ago, too. And yes, He did "create" dinosaurs, and trilobites, and all of the common fossils we find in rocks or see in museums today. He also caused the great geological extinctions as He guided the forces of evolution that served His own Holy creative forces. He was always in control of everything evolutionary.
And now, for the justification of this information into what we understand is the unerring word of God, the Holy Bible. You have to understand that God had a slight problem. Well, actually it was a rather big problem. He wanted to give the Hebrews, His chosen people, a "history" of sorts. He wanted to instill in them the strongest possible understanding of His awesome, unbounded power. But, He had to relate that power in terms they could understand and believe. Moses and the other Jewish scribes that penned Genesis would never have understood "big bangs," "dinosaurs," "fossils," "evolution," or any of the other scientific terms related in this essay. They were a simple people, and they thought in simple ways. They understood "days", but had no inkling that enough days, when run together, made a hundred million years. Therefore, God had to communicate His creation in terms they would understand. The simplest terms possible. And, that is exactly what we read in Genesis, Chapter 1.
What about mankind? Were their "men" that actually evolved from apes walking around on earth at the time of the Garden of Eden? Yes, according to the fossil record, there were men living in the earth at the time of Adam and Eve in the Garden. They were apparently descendants of the "Cro-Magnon" race of people. However, there was and is one major difference between those "men" and the man that God created. God's man, Adam, had a soul. Those others were, for all intents, nothing more than animals with a larger than normal cranial capacity. They may have begun rudimentary civilizations in different parts of the earth, but they were still little more than animals. They did not have souls residing inside them. God's chosen people, the Hebrews, did have souls.
Just look at the additional details God (through Moses) gives the Hebrews in Genesis 2:7. "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." God created Adam, and breathed the breath of life directly into him. Did that breath from God contain a soul for the first man created by God? For a surety it did because that verse tells us Adam became a living soul.
Are there still men on this earth that do not have a soul? Yes, I believe there are such men. Probably a lot of them, if the truth be known. When you look at history, I think it is easy to pick them out. People like Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, Jack the Ripper, Genghis Khan, and a whole host of other despots, mass murderers, and major criminals that litter history's record. Is it possible that anyone with a soul and a conscience could do any of the things these people did while creating their own infamy? I do not believe that is possible.
The historical record contained in Genesis concerning the creation is written in the simplest language possible, the better to obtain understanding on an essentially ignorant and completely childlike race of people, the Hebrews. It had to be. I do not believe God could have given His people a literal narration of His creation activities and expected them to understand the process, much less believe in it. So, He gave them the truth, but in a slightly condensed version, using terms such as "day", that are easy to understand and believe.
Can it be expected that fundamental Christians would ever accept the version contained in this essay over what is found in the Bible. Possibly, but only about the same time that very warm place freezes over. And that is a shame when you think about it. This version is both logical and understandable relative to today's scientific bank of knowledge. It also satisfies the scientist's most sought-after answer to how life first began on earth. It began with God!
{Closed previously unclosed UBB bold code - Adminnemooseus}
[This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 11-30-2003]

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by sidelined, posted 11-26-2003 9:30 PM Len Lisenbee has replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 2 of 14 (69491)
11-26-2003 9:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Len Lisenbee
11-25-2003 9:46 AM


Len
You post this.
"You see, God exists and operates completely outside of time, at least as we know and understand it. His very Holy and absolutely omnipotent nature permits that existence."
Where do you find it said that God exists outside of time?
And this.
"Next, we have to remember that "time", at least as we understand, record, and know it, did not really exist before Genesis"
Again,where do you find this information?
"I also believe He controlled that gigantic explosion completely to cause the firmament to be "created." Yes, it is a glorious scientific fact (if still unproven) that God created the heavens and the earth, people!"
This is interesting. You have put together a strange phrase here,an unproven scientific fact.You were a criminal investigator?
I would continue however there is little point in trashing things out farther.
------------------
"Physics is like sex. Sure, it may give some practical results, but that's not why we do it."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Len Lisenbee, posted 11-25-2003 9:46 AM Len Lisenbee has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Len Lisenbee, posted 11-26-2003 11:25 PM sidelined has replied

  
Len Lisenbee
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 14 (69512)
11-26-2003 11:25 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by sidelined
11-26-2003 9:30 PM


For God to exist before creation, by that very fact, proves He lived and still lives outside of time as we know and understand it.
Furthermore, I stated that time as we know and understand it did not exist before Genesis, mainly because the earth had not been created.
You have to remember that I, unlike you, Sidelined, am a Christian. Sure it is easy for someone who does not believe in God to trash any part of the Bible. That is your right. My essay is logical based on the contents of the Bible when it is not taken literally.
So, trash away. I only hope that one day you find yourself a true Christian.
Len

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by sidelined, posted 11-26-2003 9:30 PM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Rrhain, posted 11-27-2003 1:35 AM Len Lisenbee has not replied
 Message 5 by sidelined, posted 11-27-2003 7:19 AM Len Lisenbee has replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 4 of 14 (69534)
11-27-2003 1:35 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Len Lisenbee
11-26-2003 11:25 PM


Len Lisenbee writes:
quote:
Furthermore, I stated that time as we know and understand it did not exist before Genesis, mainly because the earth had not been created.
But that is directly contradicted by the physical evidence.
The universe is about 14 billion years old. The earth is only about 4 billion years old.
Ergo, the universe was around long before the earth.
And if the universe was around, then time was around.
Ergo, time could quite easily be around before the earth.
------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Len Lisenbee, posted 11-26-2003 11:25 PM Len Lisenbee has not replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 5 of 14 (69564)
11-27-2003 7:19 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Len Lisenbee
11-26-2003 11:25 PM


Len
It was not the bible I was trashing. You have not answered the question. We do not know that the world was created by God.
We can assume the bible is correct and then assume that God created the world but not knowing the nature of God, as an entity seperate from the bible, we cannot make any unbiased determination of his actual ability. If the bible itself is wrong then there is no basis for believing that the God of the bible is actual.
Why do you presuppose there is a God without any real evidence?It may be that,in holding to the presupposition of God that you are putting on blinders to that real world which we find ourselves in.
There are numerous problems with the idea of omnipotence and omniscience not the least of which is how to contain that power in order to use it without limiting that power.
"For God to exist before creation, by that very fact, proves He lived and still lives outside of time as we know and understand it."
This statement makes no sense since time is the only means by which events may occur.To create requires the use of time Len so this is a meaningless statement.The words lived and lives are time bound words are they not? It is so easy to throw together whole sentences of supposedly meaningful discourse but that does not mean you have given them proper critical examination.
You still have not answered this contradiction in terms.
Yes, it is a glorious scientific fact (if still unproven) that God created the heavens and the earth, people!"
How DO you obtain an unproven scientific fact?
Top of the day to you Len.
[This message has been edited by sidelined, 11-27-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Len Lisenbee, posted 11-26-2003 11:25 PM Len Lisenbee has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Len Lisenbee, posted 11-27-2003 9:38 AM sidelined has replied

  
Len Lisenbee
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 14 (69580)
11-27-2003 9:38 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by sidelined
11-27-2003 7:19 AM


Sidelined, you ask me to prove that God exists, rather than just assuming that fact. Well, to do that you need to look at Jewish history. Do you think the plagues of Egypt were just events happening randomly? After all, the Jewish scribes observed them, experienced them, and wrote about them. The Red Sea parted on command, and was duly noted in that same Jewish history. For forty years the Jews followed a pillar of smoke by day and a pillar of fire by night. It was duly recorded in their history, just as all of the other miracles from God were recorded. Remember that He foretold each and every event before it occurred. So, based on all of this proof, and it is proof if you believe the Bible is God's inspired word, then you cannot doubt that God does, in fact, live.
If, however, you think there is not enough proof, or that these miracles were simply the various figments of some Jew's imagination, or that there is no physical proof "today" that they actually occurred as recorded in scripture, then you cannot be convinced that God exists. All I can say is that, if the Jews witnessed a pillar of fire every night and a pillar of smoke during every day, for fourty years, and those pillars always went before the body of Jews as they moved on, that tells me there is a God, and He is omnipotent in every regard.
So, Sidelined, the decision is yours alone to make. Look at the "proof" contained in the Old Testament. Did someone make all of that stuff up? Or, did it really happen? If it happened, then God exists. He is a living God. And, most importantly, He and His appointed will one day stand in judgement of you and me. There is absolutely nothing either of us can do to avoid that ultimate and final judgement. If we do not measure up to His standards, (His standards alone) then we will be subjected to unbelievable torment for the rest of eternity, and all because we didn't measure up to those very simple standards. And, what will make that torment even worse is that we will be able to see Heaven from our place of torment. We will know that we could have ended up there, in eternal joy, if we had only believed a little differently while living here on earth. This was (and for now still is) our test. Will we pass it? Or, will we fail miserably? That choice is ours to make.
Len Lisenbee

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by sidelined, posted 11-27-2003 7:19 AM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by docpotato, posted 11-27-2003 1:00 PM Len Lisenbee has not replied
 Message 8 by Rrhain, posted 11-27-2003 1:08 PM Len Lisenbee has replied
 Message 12 by sidelined, posted 11-27-2003 9:30 PM Len Lisenbee has not replied

  
docpotato
Member (Idle past 5047 days)
Posts: 334
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 07-18-2003


Message 7 of 14 (69607)
11-27-2003 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Len Lisenbee
11-27-2003 9:38 AM


Hey there!
Have you ever read The Odyssey? This guy named Odysseus is trying to get home but this God of the Sea Poseidon keeps getting in his way. Odysseus tries and tries to please Poseidon, but Poseidon doesn't listen to whatever he does. Now, you may not believe in this God, Poseidon, but let me tell you, the Greeks wrote it down and it was recorded, just as other stories about other men and women who tangled with these Gods were recorded.
If the Odyssey is not enough proof for you that Poseidon, Zeus, Hades, Hera, Athena, and Apollo (not to mention a few others) and The Iliad is not enough proof and Ovid's Metamorphosis is not enough for proof for you, then I'm afraid you cannot be convinced. YOu should try to open your heart as the decision is yours to make! IF you do not measure up to their standards of goodness, then you will be tortured for all eternity. Just look at Prometheus! His liver gets pecked at by a bird once a day, then it regenerates and the bird comes back the next day! So listen up! Your liver is hoping that you choose wisely!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Len Lisenbee, posted 11-27-2003 9:38 AM Len Lisenbee has not replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 8 of 14 (69608)
11-27-2003 1:08 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Len Lisenbee
11-27-2003 9:38 AM


Len Lisenbee writes:
quote:
Do you think the plagues of Egypt were just events happening randomly?
What makes you think the plagues of Egypt actually happened? We can't find any evidence they did.
All you've done is replace one assumption (god exists) with another (the plagues of Egypt happened). Where is your evidence?
quote:
After all, the Jewish scribes observed them, experienced them, and wrote about them.
Incorrect.
The only evidence we have for them comes from the Old Testament. Surely the death of all the firstborn would have been recorded somewhere on an obelisk.
quote:
The Red Sea parted on command
Says who? The people who have a vested interest in convincing you that it did? Since when did that become a trustworthy source?
If you're going to assert that the Red Sea parted, you need to come up with a source that isn't intimately tied into the story.
quote:
For forty years the Jews followed a pillar of smoke by day and a pillar of fire by night.
Says who? You're doing nothing but using a single source that has a vested interest in trying to get you to believe it.
We need a source that is not the Bible.
quote:
Remember that He foretold each and every event before it occurred.
Incorrect. None of the prophesies put forward in the Bible have come true.
quote:
So, based on all of this proof
What proof? If I tell you that god told me that I will have corn flakes for breakfast tomorrow and I do, that is evidence for god? Don't you think a better source would be somebody who is not me and has no connection to me?
quote:
If, however, you think there is not enough proof, or that these miracles were simply the various figments of some Jew's imagination, or that there is no physical proof "today" that they actually occurred as recorded in scripture, then you cannot be convinced that God exists.
Incorrect.
You assume that the only god that could possibly exist is the one described in your book.
Have you considered the possibility that god does exist but not in the way that you think?
quote:
And, most importantly, He and His appointed will one day stand in judgement of you and me. There is absolutely nothing either of us can do to avoid that ultimate and final judgement. If we do not measure up to His standards, (His standards alone) then we will be subjected to unbelievable torment for the rest of eternity, and all because we didn't measure up to those very simple standards. And, what will make that torment even worse is that we will be able to see Heaven from our place of torment. We will know that we could have ended up there, in eternal joy, if we had only believed a little differently while living here on earth. This was (and for now still is) our test. Will we pass it? Or, will we fail miserably? That choice is ours to make.
BZZZZT!
Pascal's Wager. I'm so sorry, Len Lisenbee. Johnny, tell him what parting gifts he has!
Well, Bob, Len Lisenbee has won himself a lifetime of anguish in someone else's hell! Yes, that's right. After spending all of his life fighting against Satan and worshipping the Christian god, Len Lisenbee gets a reward of going straight to Hades for his hubris. He'll be sentenced to solve a series of puzzles for which the instructions can be read in many ways. Every attempt to glean more information will be met with "Since it would just be a waste of my time to tell you, I won't." Of course, every proposed solution will conflict with something in the contradictory instructions. This being for his continued insistence that those around him are unworthy of explanations.
But, he won't get hungry because he'll have an afterlife-time supply of Rice-a-Roni, the San Francisco Treat.
You didn't really think that the god that truly exists was the one you worship, did you?
------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Len Lisenbee, posted 11-27-2003 9:38 AM Len Lisenbee has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Len Lisenbee, posted 11-27-2003 1:51 PM Rrhain has replied

  
Len Lisenbee
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 14 (69610)
11-27-2003 1:51 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Rrhain
11-27-2003 1:08 PM


I'm truly surprised, and more than a bit disappointed, that you guys didn't use the ages old argument that, since God created everything, then He also created evil. Too bad. However, I am not surprised by your ignorance of Christianity.
Oh, and by the way. There is scientific proof of the "plagues" that struck Egypt. And, there is scientific proof that the first born of Israel were ordered slain and the firstborn of Egypt died. That was all translated long ago in the 60's.
As for your Greek gods, my God tells us there is no god like Him.
You continue to believe as you do, and I will do the same. And one day, after time is no more for either of us, I will prove you wrong.
May God bless.
Len

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Rrhain, posted 11-27-2003 1:08 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by NosyNed, posted 11-27-2003 1:58 PM Len Lisenbee has not replied
 Message 11 by docpotato, posted 11-27-2003 4:52 PM Len Lisenbee has not replied
 Message 13 by Rrhain, posted 11-29-2003 5:47 PM Len Lisenbee has not replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 10 of 14 (69611)
11-27-2003 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Len Lisenbee
11-27-2003 1:51 PM


Oh, and by the way. There is scientific proof of the "plagues" that struck Egypt. And, there is scientific proof that the first born of Israel were ordered slain and the firstborn of Egypt died. That was all translated long ago in the 60's.
Cool! Let's see the references to it and perhaps a short commentary of your own.
Oh, I do remember there is some correlation with the eruption of Thera with the supposed time of the plague of darkness. Is that "scientific proof"? Odd way to punish the Egyptians though; obliterating a people to make it dark.
[This message has been edited by NosyNed, 11-27-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Len Lisenbee, posted 11-27-2003 1:51 PM Len Lisenbee has not replied

  
docpotato
Member (Idle past 5047 days)
Posts: 334
From: Portland, OR
Joined: 07-18-2003


Message 11 of 14 (69617)
11-27-2003 4:52 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Len Lisenbee
11-27-2003 1:51 PM


quote:
As for your Greek gods, my God tells us there is no god like Him.
Well to follow your line of reasoning:
Once when I was a little kid, like maybe 5 or 6, my dad told me that he was better than anyone alive. I never asked him why he thought that or asked anyone else their opinion about my dad's greatness. Guess what? MY DAD'S BETTER THAN YOU!!!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Len Lisenbee, posted 11-27-2003 1:51 PM Len Lisenbee has not replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5908 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 12 of 14 (69638)
11-27-2003 9:30 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Len Lisenbee
11-27-2003 9:38 AM


Len
"Sidelined, you ask me to prove that God exists, rather than just assuming that fact."
I never asked you to prove God and since when does one assume a fact? This one can be filed under the same drawer as
"Yes, it is a glorious scientific fact (if still unproven) that God created the heavens and the earth, people!"
As for your assertions about plagues, pillars of smoke,pillars of fire,etc. please have the decency to present solid evidence.As you put forth in your first post you are a criminal investigator.
The balls in your court sport.Take care.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Len Lisenbee, posted 11-27-2003 9:38 AM Len Lisenbee has not replied

  
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 6351
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 13 of 14 (69909)
11-29-2003 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Len Lisenbee
11-27-2003 1:51 PM


Len Lisenbee responds to me:
quote:
I'm truly surprised, and more than a bit disappointed, that you guys didn't use the ages old argument that, since God created everything, then He also created evil.
It didn't have anything to do with your commentary, so why bring it up? That would be a strawman.
Besides, the Bible directly sys that god creates evil. Who said that god cannot create evil? You? Why should we believe you when the Bible says differently?
Exodus 32:14: And the LORD repented of the evil which he thought to do unto his people.
Judges 9:23: Then God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the men of Shechem; and the men of Shechem dealt treacherously with Abimelech:
1 Samuel 18:10: And it came to pass on the morrow, that the evil spirit from God came upon Saul, and he prophesied in the midst of the house: and David played with his hand, as at other times: and there was a javelin in Saul's hand.
2 Chronicles 18:22: Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee.
And then there's this big one that is crystal clear:
Isaiah 45:7: I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.
quote:
There is scientific proof of the "plagues" that struck Egypt.
Where? You need to back up your assertions. Your say so is not sufficient. Do you have a journal article that we might reference?
quote:
And, there is scientific proof that the first born of Israel were ordered slain and the firstborn of Egypt died.
Where? You need to back up your assertions. Your say so is not sufficient. Do you have any sort of reference we could use to verify this claim?
quote:
That was all translated long ago in the 60's.
What was? Are you saying there was some sort of obelisk that indicated such? Which obelisk? Where? From what dynasty? Do you have any reference that we can look up or do we simply need to take your word for it?
quote:
As for your Greek gods, my God tells us there is no god like Him.
But they say the same thing about yours. Why should anybody believe you over them?
After all, we found Troy. And it was sacked. And we've been able to trace the route of Odysseus. So since the Iliad and the Odyssey are so filled with archaeological evidence, why should anybody doubt them?
quote:
You continue to believe as you do, and I will do the same. And one day, after time is no more for either of us, I will prove you wrong.
BZZZZT!
Pascal's Wager. I'm so sorry, Len Lisenbee. Johnny, tell him what parting gifts he has!
Well, Bob, Len Lisenbee has won himself a lifetime of anguish in someone else's hell! Yes, that's right. After spending all of his life fighting against Satan and worshipping the Christian god, Len Lisenbee gets a reward of going straight to Hades for his hubris. He'll be sentenced to solve a series of puzzles for which the instructions can be read in many ways. Every attempt to glean more information will be met with "Since it would just be a waste of my time to tell you, I won't." Of course, every proposed solution will conflict with something in the contradictory instructions. This being for his continued insistence that those around him are unworthy of explanations.
But, he won't get hungry because he'll have an afterlife-time supply of Rice-a-Roni, the San Francisco Treat.
You didn't really think that the god that truly exists is the Christian one, did you?
------------------
Rrhain
WWJD? JWRTFM!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Len Lisenbee, posted 11-27-2003 1:51 PM Len Lisenbee has not replied

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 14 of 14 (70083)
11-30-2003 3:25 PM


Thread moved here from the Dates and Dating forum.

  
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