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Author Topic:   How can you identify the word of God without critical assessment of God?
sinequanon
Member (Idle past 2864 days)
Posts: 331
Joined: 12-17-2007


Message 1 of 11 (445723)
01-03-2008 3:50 PM


If something were presented as the word of God, and if you accept that you should not question the word of God, how could you determine whether or not it is indeed the word of God?
There may be prophets and there may be false prophets. There may be holy books and there may be false books. How can you tell them apart without critically assessing them using your fallible mortal understanding?
An example could be choosing between the Ohaspe and the Bible as a religious works. Could your choice as to which one of them is God's word be based on anything other than mortal assessment?
For the faith and belief forum, please.
Edited by sinequanon, : Added proposed forum.
Edited by sinequanon, : Clarification as per AdminNWR Message 9. + added "fallible" to qualify the word "mortal".

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AdminPD, posted 01-03-2008 7:21 PM sinequanon has replied
 Message 9 by AdminNWR, posted 01-04-2008 2:17 PM sinequanon has replied

AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 2 of 11 (445752)
01-03-2008 7:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by sinequanon
01-03-2008 3:50 PM


Inconsistent
Your opening post (OP) is inconsistent and you haven't provided your position concerning any of the questions.
This is a debate forum. You present a question and then present your position and the support for it.
There is a thread still open: Message 1
I suggest you read that thread and see if it helps with your questions or at least helps you to formulate a clearer position and post.
I'm not inclined to promote this topic as written.
Let me know if you wish to rework the OP.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by sinequanon, posted 01-03-2008 3:50 PM sinequanon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by sinequanon, posted 01-04-2008 5:53 AM AdminPD has replied

sinequanon
Member (Idle past 2864 days)
Posts: 331
Joined: 12-17-2007


Message 3 of 11 (445852)
01-04-2008 5:53 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminPD
01-03-2008 7:21 PM


Re: Inconsistent
You have not indicated what you think the OP is inconsistent with, or pinpointed the supposed inconsistency.
Can you please move it to the Coffee House if you feel the format is not suitable for debate.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by AdminPD, posted 01-03-2008 7:21 PM AdminPD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by AdminPD, posted 01-04-2008 6:49 AM sinequanon has replied

AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 4 of 11 (445855)
01-04-2008 6:49 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by sinequanon
01-04-2008 5:53 AM


Re: Inconsistent
This isn't a Coffee House topic. Coffee House is not an anything goes forum.
Inconsistencies:
How can you identify the word of God without judging God?
How would you determine whether or not it is the word of God since one is not to question the word of God?
How can you tell them apart without using your mortal understanding of existence?
What question do you want to deal with concerning identifying God's word: judging God, questioning God, or our mortal understanding of existence?
If your main question is how can anyone identify the word of God without judging God, then make your case for your position. An opening post made only of questions isn't a good start.
Think of it this way. In a debate a question is asked and each side gets a chance to speak. On this board, the opening post holds the question and the originator's position on the question. IOW, the originator goes first.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by sinequanon, posted 01-04-2008 5:53 AM sinequanon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by sinequanon, posted 01-04-2008 8:29 AM AdminPD has replied

sinequanon
Member (Idle past 2864 days)
Posts: 331
Joined: 12-17-2007


Message 5 of 11 (445873)
01-04-2008 8:29 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by AdminPD
01-04-2008 6:49 AM


Re: Inconsistent
What question do you want to deal with concerning identifying God's word: judging God, questioning God, or our mortal understanding of existence?
All of them, i.e
First reading the words, then questioning the words to decide whether or not God would say such words or communicate them in such a manner. (Thereby judging God through the eyes of a mortal). E.g rejecting the Ohaspe as a religious works on the basis that God would not write such words or communicate them through a particular person.
By judging God, I mean "assessing" God and his actions, not the biblical notion associated with condemnation. Perhaps that is where you are seeing inconsistency? I don't know.
This isn't a Coffee House topic. Coffee House is not an anything goes forum.
But need all the posts in it be in the format of a debate?
My position is that I don't know how the word of God can be identified without judging God. I am asking those who believe that they have done so how they have done so.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by AdminPD, posted 01-04-2008 6:49 AM AdminPD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by AdminPD, posted 01-04-2008 12:28 PM sinequanon has replied

AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 6 of 11 (445924)
01-04-2008 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by sinequanon
01-04-2008 8:29 AM


Re: Inconsistent
Yes I understood what you meant my judging. Since you thought of the other option, it is wise to clarify what you mean. I suggest not using the word judge.
quote:
My position is that I don't know how the word of God can be identified without judging God. I am asking those who believe that they have done so how they have done so.
There is a lot you can provide concerning your position. Such as:
Why is assessing God a problem in identifying his word?
Who says we can't question God?
What has our understanding of mortal existence have to do with identifying God's word?
You're asking questions, but providing no insight as to the point or basis of these questions.
If you really want to know how those who believe that they have identified the word of God and believe they have done so without assessing God, then you need to write a clearer OP. Why is assessing God an issue?
You've got participation under your belt and have written a reasonable OP for the spider thing. You can flesh this one out a bit and provide some basis for the questions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by sinequanon, posted 01-04-2008 8:29 AM sinequanon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by sinequanon, posted 01-04-2008 1:16 PM AdminPD has replied

sinequanon
Member (Idle past 2864 days)
Posts: 331
Joined: 12-17-2007


Message 7 of 11 (445927)
01-04-2008 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by AdminPD
01-04-2008 12:28 PM


Re: Inconsistent
Why is assessing God a problem in identifying his word?
I didn't say it was a "problem".
Who says we can't question God?
Not me.
What has our understanding of mortal existence have to do with identifying God's word?
I think you have misread. I said mortal understanding (of existence). "Existence" meaning "what is". I could have left the word out altogether as implicit. Then you would probably have asked me, "understanding of what?".
It's like this tread http://EvC Forum: Did Eyelids Evolve? -->EvC Forum: Did Eyelids Evolve? which seems to be going fine, for example. Nobody has asked what the author's position is.
Another thread is this one http://EvC Forum: fulfilled prophecy - specific examples. -->EvC Forum: fulfilled prophecy - specific examples. No position stated, but responses requested leading to debate.
I can find a lot more similar examples.
However, I am guessing you will have your way. If your think it would be representative of EvC response, you may close the proposal. I would be happy to draw my conclusions from that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by AdminPD, posted 01-04-2008 12:28 PM AdminPD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by AdminPD, posted 01-04-2008 1:41 PM sinequanon has not replied

AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 8 of 11 (445930)
01-04-2008 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by sinequanon
01-04-2008 1:16 PM


Another Admin Please Review this PNT
I will leave you to another admin then.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by sinequanon, posted 01-04-2008 1:16 PM sinequanon has not replied

AdminNWR
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 11 (445938)
01-04-2008 2:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by sinequanon
01-03-2008 3:50 PM


Some changes needed
I have some misgivings about your OP, similar to some of those expressed by AdminPD. However, if you will make a small change, I will promote the thread anyway.
... without judging them using your mortal understanding of existence?
I would like you to change "judging" to some other word such as "evaluating", to avoid the type of confusing that AdminPD pointed to. And I would like you to find a way of expressing your question without referring to "existence" (which is a bit of a vague term). Just removing the two words "of existence" would be sufficient.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by sinequanon, posted 01-03-2008 3:50 PM sinequanon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by sinequanon, posted 01-04-2008 2:46 PM AdminNWR has replied

sinequanon
Member (Idle past 2864 days)
Posts: 331
Joined: 12-17-2007


Message 10 of 11 (445949)
01-04-2008 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by AdminNWR
01-04-2008 2:17 PM


Re: Some changes needed
Thank you AdminNWR. I have amended the OP as required.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by AdminNWR, posted 01-04-2008 2:17 PM AdminNWR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by AdminNWR, posted 01-04-2008 3:15 PM sinequanon has not replied

AdminNWR
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 11 (445963)
01-04-2008 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by sinequanon
01-04-2008 2:46 PM


Re: Some changes needed
Thread promoted to How can you identify the word of God without critical assessment of God?.
I did the promotion in such a way as to make a fresh start, omitting the discussion in this PNT thread. This PNT copy of the thread will be closed, but still available as a reference point for those who may wish to see the discussion.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by sinequanon, posted 01-04-2008 2:46 PM sinequanon has not replied

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