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Author Topic:   Digg: Fake evolutionist attack piece on Creationism
hansmast
Junior Member (Idle past 6163 days)
Posts: 6
Joined: 05-14-2007


Message 1 of 13 (400494)
05-14-2007 11:08 AM


Digg, the popular vote-based news site, had a front-page story pointing to a post by an evolutionist which attacked the new Answers in Genesis Creation Musuem. The post turned out to be a total fabrication. I posted this rebuttal on Digg, but it needs lots of votes to get to the front page. If you have a Digg account, please Digg it. If you don't, creating an account is easy. We need to get the truth out about the sheer fabrication that evolutionists engage in on a regular basis.
Here's the post:
A Ph.D. macroevolution student from the University of Bristol wrote an interesting post (featured on Digg) highlighting an outlandish claim--that the T. Rex ate coconuts--made by the new Creation Museum. There is only one problem: the museum is not open yet, her facts don’t line up with reality, and it appears likely she invented the entire tale.
Moderators, I wasn't sure which forum to post this in. Feel free to move the post if you think it fits better elsewhere.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by jar, posted 05-14-2007 11:15 AM hansmast has replied
 Message 5 by Taz, posted 05-14-2007 11:57 AM hansmast has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 2 of 13 (400497)
05-14-2007 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by hansmast
05-14-2007 11:08 AM


Well spam, which is all your message is, really doesn't belong anywhere on EvC. Save such nonsense for your blog.
But I must admit, AIG is as funny as the Need God quiz.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by hansmast, posted 05-14-2007 11:08 AM hansmast has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by hansmast, posted 05-14-2007 11:18 AM jar has replied

  
hansmast
Junior Member (Idle past 6163 days)
Posts: 6
Joined: 05-14-2007


Message 3 of 13 (400500)
05-14-2007 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by jar
05-14-2007 11:15 AM


The two main criteria of spam are not met by my message: commercial & indiscriminate

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by jar, posted 05-14-2007 11:15 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by jar, posted 05-14-2007 11:27 AM hansmast has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 4 of 13 (400502)
05-14-2007 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by hansmast
05-14-2007 11:18 AM


Just a suggestion, you would likely get far more support if you were begging for support on one of the Christian Cult of Ignorance sites instead of here.
You are unlikely to elicit more than chuckles here at best.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
Edited by jar, : No reason given.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by hansmast, posted 05-14-2007 11:18 AM hansmast has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 5 of 13 (400510)
05-14-2007 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by hansmast
05-14-2007 11:08 AM


Hi, hansmast. Don't be discouraged by jar. Just see him as a cranky old man. If you haven't already left, I need to explain to you a little bit on why your post more likely than not would get negative comments here.
Your first post on this forum is for the sole purpose of advertising your writings elsewhere on the net. We, at EvC, try to keep this place a place with more qualitied postings, debates, and whatnot. Therefore, to me at least, chances are that you've already left this place and never ever to return because it seems like you're not really interested in debating the issue. You've come for the sole purpose of advertising yourself, and chances are that you've done the same thing to 10 other forums. We call this spamming. If you don't want to use the word, then call it fluffing.
However, if I am wrong and you've decided to stay, you are certainly welcome to. Just know that advertisement, commercial or not, would hardly give us a good first impression of you.


We are BOG. Resistance is voltage over current.
Disclaimer:
Occasionally, owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have used he/him/his meaning he or she/him or her/his or her in order to avoid awkwardness of style.
He, him, and his are not intended as exclusively masculine pronouns. They may refer to either sex or to both sexes!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by hansmast, posted 05-14-2007 11:08 AM hansmast has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by hansmast, posted 05-14-2007 9:04 PM Taz has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 6 of 13 (400534)
05-14-2007 5:09 PM


AiG On Sharp Teeth In Eden
quote:
The snake described in this article is obviously harmless to people”but it has mechanisms enabling it to survive in a harsh, fallen world. In fact, virtually all creatures have well designed ”fight or flight’ mechanisms enabling them to survive in a fallen world of predation, disease, etc. So how and when did these arise”or indeed the poison-injecting fangs of the hognose’s more dangerous cousins?
There are a number of possibilities, including:
The structures were used for something else, but turned to other purposes after the Fall. This is conceivable for some, like sharp teeth (useful for hard fruit and bamboo), but less so for others.
Whether they explicitly claim in their museum that T. Rex ate coconuts, I wouldn't know.

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Brad McFall, posted 05-16-2007 2:26 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
hansmast
Junior Member (Idle past 6163 days)
Posts: 6
Joined: 05-14-2007


Message 7 of 13 (400553)
05-14-2007 9:04 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Taz
05-14-2007 11:57 AM


Nah, I enjoy Creation vs. Evolution debate and will be around as time allows. Thanks for y'all's feedback. :-D

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Taz, posted 05-14-2007 11:57 AM Taz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Wounded King, posted 05-16-2007 12:55 PM hansmast has not replied

  
Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 8 of 13 (400727)
05-16-2007 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by hansmast
05-14-2007 9:04 PM


Ken Ham's own response, that you linked to on your blog, is informative. It hardly justifies your claim that the whole post is a 'complete fabrication' especially as a little bit of research might have you shown that almost all of the claims made in it were already extant.
While they won't have guides per se providing guided tours of the museum they will have 'guest relations personnel' who would presumably be there to answer any questions which might be asked. There only seem to be a couple of points on which Ham outright contradicts the account.
I think that this blogger has not simply made anything up, rather she has failed to attribute her sources. Most of her post seems to be paraphrasings of descriptions of the Creation Museum in a piece by a writer called Chris Hedges Alternet.org - 404 Not Found , and indeed much if not all of this material is in his book 'American Fascists'. This piece has the baby dinosaur and coconut claims which are the ones Ham directly contradicts as well as a number of descriptions whose loose paraphrasing may have led to the other inconsistencies, i.e. Hedges says 'T-Rex had such big teeth, the museum explains, so it could open coconuts.' which has obviously been interpreted by Fish Feet as being an explanation by a guide, similarly he describes 'Adam and Eve, naked but strategically positioned so as not to display breasts or genitals, swim in a river as giant dinosaurs and lizards roam the banks' not 'Adam and Eve swimming in a river with giant reptiles'.
If Fish Feet hasn't based her piece on Hedges then they must both have had some common source from which they derived the same (mis?)information.
What I don't understand is why you didn't question the factuality of the piece or ask her to substantiate it on the blog. You have dozens of posts discussing scripture and other things but why not put you rebuttal in with her original piece rather than hoping you can digg up enough support, pardon the pun, for your own post?
Since I doubt Hedges has had a tour of the museum you have to wonder if he got his information from Eugenie Scott or a similar source, Scott was shown at least some of the museum by Ham himself. Otherwise he can't have had much to go on apart for the PR material the Creation Museum released itself, or perhaps previous statements from AIG.
Fish Feet might well be substantially wrong in many of the claims she repeats but you yourself are equally wrong to say 'it appears likely she invented the entire tale'.
TTFN,
WK
P.S. while 'coconut-eating T. Rex’s have never been a part of AiG’s models or speculations' you have to wonder why they picture t-rex right next to what looks like a coconut palm. You can see why people might get the wrong impression .

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by hansmast, posted 05-14-2007 9:04 PM hansmast has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Brad McFall
Member (Idle past 5033 days)
Posts: 3428
From: Ithaca,NY, USA
Joined: 12-20-2001


Message 9 of 13 (400740)
05-16-2007 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Dr Adequate
05-14-2007 5:09 PM


Re:time for a dino dentite
Ken Ham wrote (See WK's link above in this thread)
quote:
author Sarda
In Genesis 1:30 God gives ”green herb’ to every creature to eat and so there were no predators. When a curious museum visitor asks, why exactly T. rex had six-inch long serrated teeth, the guides go on to explain that T. rex used his big teeth to open coconuts.
Ken
[This is a new one! I’ve never heard of anyone at AiG saying T. rex ate coconuts. However, maybe Sarda is right!!! As I stated, there are no guides at the Museum. People will learn that all animals, including the T. rex dinosaurs ate plants originally”which means, all sorts of plants/fruits, etc.]
author Sarda
Apparently it was only after Adam and Eve sinned and were cast out of paradise that the dinosaurs started to eat flesh.
Well, maybe both Ken and the author are correct. Dr. A, I had a dream about 7 years with the image of a T-rex like form stripping pinecones off the TIPTOPS of evergreens to get food. As a child I used to have dino dreams with me swallowed and remaining "in the foot" of the imagined/dreampt chimera/creature/dino(T-rex). I think this is a significant change in dream representation. Whether it represents the idea of Dinos being vegitarians eaters (one a dino dentist might attempt to gather evidence for) or not, who knows if taking the tour will enable someoneelse to have the same dream I have had.
Edited by Brad McFall, : author

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-14-2007 5:09 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1344 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 10 of 13 (400866)
05-17-2007 1:53 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Wounded King
05-16-2007 12:55 PM


P.S. while 'coconut-eating T. Rex’s have never been a part of AiG’s models or speculations' you have to wonder why they picture t-rex right next to what looks like a coconut palm. You can see why people might get the wrong impression
the earliest known coconut-bearing palm tree dates to only 15 million years ago, and it was found in new zealand. i believe that coconut palms may have been brought to the western hemisphere by human beings (subject of some debate, apparently). certainly, they are not indigenous to where i live, south florida -- our only natural species are the bushy ones similar to the cretaceous palms, and the sabal palms.
then again, we didn't have t. rexes either. i'm not even sure you'd find them in the same ecosystem. t. rex lived way up north where the badlands are today, NOT in the tropics. forests and shorelines, yes, tropics no. they even went as far north, apparently, as the arctic circle.
but you know, i guess is this what happens when your only image of dinosaurs are badly drawn cartoons, and not actually based in the slightest on the real bones...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Wounded King, posted 05-16-2007 12:55 PM Wounded King has not replied

  
Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 11 of 13 (400878)
05-17-2007 6:30 AM


Even the 'Green Herb' joke wasn't original. Grrlscientist made it a month before, and lets face it its a pretty obvious joke.
I can't believe that any rational human would actually believe this tripe, unless they have been smoking a little too much "green herb" themselves.
Its just a weird facet of the way blogging works that for some reason this particular iteration of the story took off in such a way.
As to the whole coconut thing, there is an old blog from the end of last year I have found which refers to the coconut claim in reference to Ham's book 'The Great Dinosaur Mystery solved!'.
Pages 22-25 tells of a crank version of Tyrannosaurus featuring, in some cases, outdated descriptions of T,rex and many comical YE falsehoods about him worth a billion laughs, including his eating habits. Creationists reasoned falsely that since God in Genesis 1:30 has “commanded” that all animals must eat plants, then T.rex must have been a vegetarian before the Fall as well, eating melons, coconuts, gourds....
It isn't clear if this is directly taken from the book or just being noted as something some creationists using this argument have suggested. I know Crazyharp on another board so I might ask if he can clarify this.
If Ham did put this in his book it would certainly be disingenuous, at least, for him to disavow it on the grounds that it isn't a claim being made in the creation museum. Since the museum is Ham's baby as well it seems reasonable for people to have assumed its content would fall in line with Ham's published works.
TTFN,
WK

  
AdminQuetzal
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 13 (400887)
05-17-2007 8:32 AM


Moving the Topic
Because there appears to be at least some discussion of this topic going on, I intend to move the thread in one hour from now to a more appropriate forum. "Suggestions and Questions" is not designed for lengthy discussions.
Note bene: This "one time good deal" is not to give other posters license for any further accidental or deliberate by-passing of the PNT topic proposal process.

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    AdminQuetzal
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    Message 13 of 13 (400897)
    05-17-2007 9:31 AM


    Thread moved here from the Suggestions and Questions forum.

      
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