What Is An Elitist?

We here at EvC have been discussing the concept of what or who qualifies as an elitist, what spectrum of political ideology contains signs of elitism, and whether the definition fits members of both political parties or primarily only one. Many of my conservative leaning friends bring up the term, but I hear it less among my liberal friends. They are more outraged at tax breaks for billionaires.

You're alone in your obsession with labeling the people here as elitist. Will you just admit YouTube videos are revving up your hate engines?--Percy

You're a perfect example of what the real elites in this country have been pushing.They've fooled you into thinking that "educated people" are your enemy. You literally appear to think that people who have developed specialized knowledge on a topic are "bad."The elites, Phat, are the oligarchs. Wealthy CEOs. Established capital - the big investors, the "shareholders" who we worker bees need to develop "value" for. The people who don't need to work for a living and who benefit from the labor and exploitation of others for literally all of their obscene wealth.They want you to mistrust educated people, because that way you can be convinced to vote against your own interests. When an actual economic expert says "hey this Trump guy's tariff-based economy is a terrible idea," you think "oh, I shouldnt trust the elitist economist, he has a college degree. I've been told that the economist thinks he's better than me. Fuck that guy. Instead I'll trust that billionaire Trump guy. He feels more like one of us."You said before you voted Harris only to keep "peace" in your family, so I'm going to just go ahead and treat you like a Trump supporter. That's clearly what you really are. THE BILLIONAIRES (and a lot of millionaires) ARE THE ELITES PHAT. Not the educated. Not the atheists. Not the liberals, or the leftists. Not the working people who just happen to make a higher wage than you, or whatever other nonsense you've been convinced of by YouTubers and podcasts and whatever.You and millions of people have been utterly fooled by the grifting elites who actually do cheat and rig the system. The people who ensure that their investments, their wealth, can give them an obscenely privileged life without needing to perform labor. They make sure their investments don't get taxed at the same rate as our labor. They make sure that State power is used not based on actually helping our own citizens or being poisitive moral actors on the world stage, but rather to protect themselves and their wealth. They use our tax dollars to make sure the cops find the killer of a CEO, but couldn't care less about a poor person who got shot. The use our tax dollars to make sure that we fund the military to project power and secure "American interests," which are the interests of the wealthy because that's what gets us trade routes and commerce and access to resources.It's so fucking frustrating Phat, because you (and the massive number of people like you) have bought into lies. Provable lies. But the lies are clever - they're intended to weaken your trust of the people and evidence that would convince you you're being lied to. They tell you not to trust those "ivory tower liberal professors" and whatnot. They convince people (I'm spreading beyond you here; not everyone who'se bought into the Big Lies buys intl all of the lies) that people with different skin colors, or gender identities, or national origins, or immigration status, or sexual orientation, are actually somehow at fault for your eggs costing too damned much. They set the working class against itself in as many ways as they can, they manufacture "culture wars" and stoke hatreds and make sure we "other" each other because there are more of us than there are of them, and if we actually fucking targeted the real elites, they would lose some of their wealth and might have to live slightly less opulent lifestyles.You're not "less than" anybody, Phat. You've been fooled. Everybody gets fooled now and again. A strong person is one who can look at their own beliefs and positions, reflect on their real effects, identify real experts and evidence, and admit they were wrong and change their mind. Nobody cares how many degrees you do or don't have if you can point to real evidence and experts and support your positions. I don't think I'm better than you. I think you're my brother, you've been convinced to believe some pretty bad lies, and you've been making stupid decisions because you believe those lies. How can you make smart decisions on bad information? The reason we all express frustration is because we keep trying to tell you and you refuse to listen. You refuse to learn from the past. In recent posts you said things that imply you've completely erased all knowledge of Trump's first term!That healthcare CEO who got shot? He was an elite. And his shooting is one of the big reasons the elites want us convinced of bullshit of the sort you repeat almost daily. It keeps them in power. And unless a whole lot of people like you wake up to the class warfare that's been waged against you, and me, and all the other working people in the country, it's going to keep getting worse.

You know something, Rahvin? Despite my inner pride in wanting to continue fighting with you because of what I concluded to be true, something is telling me that you are sincere. (Well...most of you) I still believe that AZPaul3 is wrong in being so anti-theistic. I still think that there is a spiritual war of sorts happening on our planet.But I also believe that (the) God of my understanding wants you on His team and not in a place known as hell. I reach my own conclusions on many things and do not base my conclusions on YouTube videos or Mainstream media (including The Washington Post). This inner conscience and decision-making "voice" even questions itself sometimes. There is no fear in questioning myself. There is a degree of fear in mass mania. To quote Forrest Gump, "thats all I have to say about that".

OK, I will admit it. My level of anxiety is at an unhealthy level.

Use your insurance, see a guy.--Percy

You're not fooling anyone. It's glaringly obvious how heavily influenced you are by conservative conspiracy theories spread by YouTube videos and other social media because you echo them so very closely.And we know you're not at all influenced or informed by those elements of the mainstream media with longsranding reputations for truth and accuracy, especially not the Washington Post because it is behind a paywall, because nothing you say reflects any awareness of it.--Percy

First off, why must these sites be conservative? Second, how would you know what I listen to without having watched *it* yourself? Third, why is independent media labeled as conspiratorial, manipulative, or fake? How do you deduce or test and see whether or not mainstream media is not itself a far larger echo chamber? After all, it is all owned by relatively few people.As for YouTube videos, some of them are very informative...on par with FRONTLINE.You seem to see me as a reactionary!

We know you're consuming conservative content because of your history here and because the views you're still espousing are the ones promoted by conservative outlets. Who do you think you're kidding? You have a very long history here, so we have a very clear picture of the kind of stuff you watch. Until we finally got you to stop you were constantly posting links to conservative content. And you're still spouting the same stuff. I didn't say that they were. I said you're heavily influenced by conservative content. And now you're spouting another conservative talking point. What is the point of trying to deny your attraction to conservative viewpoints and conspiracy theories when it's been a constant theme in your postings here for years? I didn't say anything about the quality of YouTube videos, but we already know that YouTube is the source of much of the crazy stuff that you watch. I see you as a rube for any effective sales pitch.--Percy

Are the non-elitists those who say a certain group shouldn't be listened to because they lack a certain belief? To me, that sounds like an elitist.If anyone is saying someone should not be listened to because of their religious beliefs or lack thereof, they are being elitist. The non-elitist stance should be to hear everyone out and judge their argument by its merits.

We recognize the symptoms, such as the talk about the gold standard and your penchant for repeating Russian propaganda. It isn't. However, there is a much higher rate of conspiratorial, manipulative, or fake media amongst conservative independent media than there is liberal and neutral media. The lies about the 2020 election are a good example. Fact checking against neutral sources. But are they telling the truth?

Just poking around a bit clearly illustrates how much you've changed over the past 20 years or so. Back around 2007 you were posting links to Sam Harris and making fun of Peter Popoff. By 2013 you'd started revealing a little about your addictions. By 2021 you were commenting about precious metals and posting YouTube videos about "leftist narratives" and liberal morals, etc. By September of that year you had begun a self-imposed inactive period because of what you felt were cognitive issues, but that didn't last long and you came back seemingly determined to ignore most criticism. That's been your MO ever since as you post about the gold standard and fiat currencies and cancel culture and liberal fascism and so on.It's obvious how conservative you are and I don't understand why you're trying to gaslight us by denying it. You've become about as conservative as marc9000 and Dredge.--Percy

Good point. If I am in any way gaslighting it will stop.Add by Edit:
From Understanding Gaslighting: What It Means, How To Recognize It and What To Do

quote:

---

“The person who’s perpetrating it may or may not know they’re doing it, but for the person it’s being done to, it can feel confusing and be very damaging. You start to question your self-worth, your self-esteem and your own mental capacity.”

---

I think it happens both ways around here. I often feel the victim of those who say that they "told me" how to think, what to believe or not believe, and that my mental health was unstable. Granted there is truth to some of it. We certainly do not want to be a forum that encourages mental abuse.

quote:

---

Gaslighting behaviors vary, but some of the most common gaslighting behaviors include:

• Outright or subtle lying.
• Undermining someone by belittling them or humiliating them.
• Being cold or cut off from conversation by withholding affection, attention or information so that problem-solving becomes increasingly difficult.
• Deflecting or countering arguments instead of working toward a solution.
• Minimizing a situation by trivializing or invalidating someone’s feelings or concerns.
• Denying fault or shifting the blame onto another so that they’re forced to feel responsible for the gaslighter’s actions.
• Shaming or guilting someone into believing they did something wrong or that what they feel or think is inherently incorrect.
• Isolating someone from their support network so they feel dependent on the gaslighter.

​

On their own, each of these individual behaviors is unhealthy. But when utilized together and over longer periods, these gaslighting behaviors become a form of emotional goading.

---

See? I learned something today!

In your case, the "person who's perpetrating it" is quite aware they are lying. You are consuming conservative conspiracy-theory style YouTube or other videos and regurgitating them here as unsupported assertions, and then denying it ("Why must these sites be conservative?"). No one here is being mentally damaged by this, but it confuses and confounds discussion and is a waste of time.Then you questioned how we could know what you listen to ("How would you know what I listen to without having watched *it* yourself?") when you've been open about it for years, frequently pushing the videos here. Just because we've finally got you to stop posting the videos here doesn't mean it isn't imminently clear that you're still watching them.You also misrepresented what I said ("Why is independent media labeled as conspiratorial, manipulative, or fake?"), even though you quoted it.If you're not going to be honest and forthright in what you post here then you should stop posting. If you're merely going to repeat false and/or misleading assertions with no supporting arguments or evidence and that have already been rebutted many times then you should also stop posting.For example, if you really believe we need to return to the gold standard then you should discuss it, but you instead ignore the reasons people provide for why that's impossible and then repeat your assertion at a later time with no more rationale than, "The sky will fall, you'll see." You should stop doing this. You're just wasting people's time. Plus your unsupported "the sky is falling" assertions invite ridicule, which is also a waste of time, but what other response is possible to indistinct and incoherent propositions?--Percy

Saw this political cartoon and it gave me a chuckle. I can't help but feel the current attitudes against elitists (i.e. experts) is a post-modernist reaction to inconvenient facts. Do the facts contradict your beliefs? If yes, attack the people presenting the facts.