Electric Vehicles

I'll start this topic by commenting on the insane requirements for federal tax credits for electric vehicles (EVs) for next year. Starting January 1, 2024, a qualifying vehicle cannot have any components or raw materials from China. For whatever reason, China leads the world in lithium ion battery production. Hence, most EV batteries come from China. Hence, most EVs won't qualify for the federal tax credit next year.The motivation for the EV federal tax credit was to encourage the transition to an electric economy, not to punish China. The growth in sales of EV vehicles is expected to slow next year because of the decreased availability of the federal tax credit. We're cutting off our nose to spite our face.--Percy

Most would qualify for a partial credit.
Electric Vehicles & Plug-In Hybrids Qualifying for Federal Tax Credit - Consumer Reports

Even though the article was updated on December 1, only limited information was available for 2024. For example, it says the Tesla Model 3 qualifies for the full credit this year and commented that Tesla had announced that the full credit might not apply in 2024 but had provided no details. We now know that in 2024 only the Tesla Model 3 Performance Version (maybe 10% of Model 3 sales) will be fully eligible in 2024. No Tesla Model S qualifies because it's been deemed a luxury car. I assume the same is true of the Model X since it's in the same price range. A whole bunch of cars in that same $80,000 price range are listed as qualifying, so maybe that changes in 2024.I think it might take a while for the details about the effects of the China exclusion and other changes to become clear, but it should be pretty stiff if they're predicting that EV sales growth will slow in 2024.Another financial motivator for going EV is their lower maintenance costs, but while I have no data I suspect that that savings doesn't begin to kick in until at least year 5 because ICE vehicles have improved so much in quality.--Percy

It is not an IRS or Biden admin decision. The Inflation Reduction Act requires this.

My recollection is that Senator Joe 'Coal Baron' Manchin, whose vote was needed in the closely divided Senate, would not support the bill without these limitations.

Just a general note to be aware of:A great deal of what is published about EVs is wrong, very wrong. One might wonder who would want to publish bullshit (i.e., who might profit). Oil companies, car mags that take advertising from companies still very, very dependent on ICE sales, those motivated by right wing politics, etc?? I wonder

I did learn something EV related recently that is both negative and true. In an article about Electrify America I learned that it was founded as part of Volkswagen's settlement with the US over it's fraudulent emissions reporting for diesel vehicles. The netword they've built is very unreliable: VW spent $2B to build America a charging network. It’s ranked dead last.If it were just one bad company it wouldn't be so bad, but while I don't have hard data I have read many stories about people having trouble finding a working charging station. I have a Tesla and have never encountered a non-working charging station, but it must happen.ChargePoint has by far the largest charging network, but almost all their stations are level 2. Charging a couple hundred miles at a level 2 station would take about 4 hours, at a rough estimate. At level 3 stations you can get a couple hundred miles in about 30 minutes.It's important to note that charging an EV's battery up to about 90% can happen very, very quickly at a level 3 charger, maybe 30-40 minutes to go from 10% to 90%. But if you want to charge up to 100%, that last 10% can be very, very slow, up to another 30 minutes at least.When on trips we find we're usually stopping for lunch, so we find a Tesla charging station because they're almost all in malls or in retail districts or at eateries. The car's navigation system finds them for you, navigates you there, then resumes your normal navigation. We just plug in and go in for lunch. By the time we've finished lunch the car is charged to at least 90% and off we go.--Percy

You found one that is true! I have a Model Y and last September in Calgary I (for the first time ) did have to wait to charge. Then they were V 2 chargers and so slower from sharing with others. Then a guy who just got his M3 that day was having trouble charging asked about it. When a charger came open I suggested he try a different one which worked. So all the problems arose at once site that once.Two weeks later they opened a 10 or something location of V3 chargers in Calgary so problem solved.An underlying issue was I had told the car to navigate to Vancouver from Drumheller and it picked that busy location because that was the shortest route. When the right answer was to go a few kms longer to a V3 location.

I recently posted a comment at the WaPo article How Tesla Autopilot got grounded, a timeline that while factual was structured negatively, with a very misleading headline to boot. Some accident statistics were cited in the comments, and this was one of the responses:

quote:

---

Thanks Elon for the cherry-picked statistics. How many of those 4,850,000 miles driven were under ideal conditions, conditions that meet Tesla's guidelines? How many of those 652,00 miles driven were under the same conditions? You have no idea what those number mean and the data what data was used. You are just quoting numbers that Tesla is feeding people to sell cars.

---

I think the commenter is a not untypical skeptic. Elon makes it easy to be skeptical with his arrogance and over-promising. But there *are* facts out there, something many of the skeptics don't seem very interested in.We had dinner with friends a few weeks ago, and one is an EV skeptic. The conversation never turned to EV's, but since I have a Tesla it did get mentioned briefly a couple times. I think one time I commented about having lunch while the Tesla charged, and another time about lower range in winter. He was all over both comments with negativity. Oh, just remembered, I have an electric leaf blower now, and he was all over that, too.I think his attitude about electric power must be related to his opinion on climate change. He believes it's a made-up crisis, so he's against anything that's supposed to help slow climate change.The trick to friendship is to remember that agreeing on everything isn't why you're friends. --Percy

The commentator has a point about the stats. I am annoyed that the regulators, both in Canada, the US and elsewhere aren't getting on this.They should be the ones gathering facts and running the statistics so we can have independent numbers that are useful for a real comparison.The regulators will be asked to make decisions about allowing fully automated driving and will need good, independent numbers to make that. But they are falling behind the enormous changes going on around them.I use FSD on highway trips and find it very useful and feel it is good to have more eyes than mine watching out for things.However, part of the reason it feels safer is while it's driving with 360 degree vision it makes me nervous enough to pay more attention than I might when I'm driving myself.It's only tried to kill me a few times so far.

“Full Self Driving” is pretty much false advertising. Whatever the original intent, current model Tesla’s will never have full self driving. Their sensor suite really isn’t up to it. Cruise control and lane-keeping they can manage, but not a lot more.

I think I agree. The HW3 cameras aren't high enough resolution to drive well (where you look a long way ahead to make decisions eg). Others disagree with me and know a lot more than I do so I'm waiting to see how it all unfolds.However, on the highway it is very useful and the car can drive for hours without intervention. In the city I've had more than half an hour of uninterrupted complex traffic navigated successfully. But the usual is something stupid every 4 or 5 minutes.

I believe Tesla at one point had to contend with a lawsuit regarding its autopilot feature. The suit claimed it gave a false sense of security to people who assumed the car was fully autonomous.There have been several accidents and even some fatalities resulting from people who were quite frankly, being morons. They would video themselves in the backseat of a Tesla that was on autopilot. And on one occasion it resulted in a death because the "driver" was in the backseat and a large truck pulled out in front of his car.Personally, I don't think there was any flaw on the marketing of the feature. Autopilot in airplanes is the same thing. It is limited and is not a replacement for the pilot. It is, for the most part, "cruise control" that can be leveraged. And autopilot along with similar features on modern day cars are basically just an augmentation of the existing cruise control functionality.

I think Elon promotes false impressions. For instance, in July of this year he said Tesla would have self-driving cars by "later this year." He added that "this is only speculation", but also that "we're closer to it than we ever have been."Across the several million Tesla owners there will be a small percentage who improperly interpret his comments. I wish the NTSB and the NHSTA were able to come down more heavily on Elon when he makes comments that aren't an accurate reflection of reality.--Percy

There's an example from Germany. My son's in his final year of law school and had me help him last year with an assignment by translating a news article from Germany, Die Bayerische Polizei - Tesla-Fahrer schläft im Autopilot-Modus:

quote:

---

Tesla-Fahrer schläft im Autopilot-Modus

​

A70/ BAMBERG. Am Mittwochmittag kontrollierte eine Streife der Verkehrspolizei Bamberg einen 45-jährigen Tesla-Fahrer, der mit aktiviertem Autopilot am Steuer eingeschlafen war. Der Mann zeigte zudem drogentypische Auffälligkeiten. Nach Rücksprache mit der Staatsanwaltschaft Bamberg wurde gegen ihn Anzeige wegen Gefährdung des Straßenverkehrs erstattet.

​

Der Fahrer war gegen 12 Uhr auf der A70 von Bamberg in Fahrtrichtung Bayreuth unterwegs, als die Polizeistreife ihn einer Verkehrskontrolle unterziehen wollte. Er reagierte weder auf Anhaltesignale noch auf mehrfaches Hupen der Beamten. Auffällig war, dass das Fahrzeug von der Anschlussstelle Viereth-Trunstadt bis zur Anschlussstelle Bamberg-Hafen mit 110 Stundenkilometern konstant den gleichen Abstand zum vorausfahrenden Streifenwagen einhielt. Die Beamten stellten hierbei fest, dass der Tesla-Fahrer mit geschlossenen Augen im Sitz lehnte und sich seine Hände nicht am Lenkrad befanden. Dies erhärtete den Verdacht, dass er dem Autopiloten das Steuer überlassen hatte und eingeschlafen war. Nach rund 15 Minuten wurde der Mann schließlich wach und folgte den Anweisungen der Polizei. Er zeigte bei der Kontrolle drogentypische Auffälligkeiten. Im Fußraum fanden die Beamten zudem ein sogenanntes Lenkradgewicht. Diese Vorrichtung wird an das Lenkrad angebracht, um die Sicherheitsfunktion des Fahrzeugs auszutricksen, indem vorgetäuscht wird, dass sich die Hand am Steuer befindet.

​

Gegen den Tesla-Fahrer wurde ein Ermittlungsverfahren wegen des Straftatbestandes der Gefährdung des Straßenverkehrs eingeleitet. Er muss bis zur gerichtlichen Entscheidung auf seinen Führerschein verzichten.

​

--------------------------

​

Tesla Driver Asleep in Autopilot Mode

​

A70/ BAMBERG. At noon on Wednesday, a Bamberg traffic police patrol stopped a 45-year-old driver who had fallen asleep at the wheel of his Tesla while it was in active autopilot mode. Additionally, the man showed conspicuous signs typical of drugs. After consulting with the state prosecutor of Bamberg charges were filed against him for endangering street traffic.

​

Towards noon, the driver was underway on the A70 in Bamberg in the direction of Bayreuth when the police patrol tried to engage him in a traffic stop. He reacted neither to the officers' signals to stop nor to their repeated honking. It was noticed that the vehicle had maintained a constant speed of 110 kph (about 68 mph) from the Viereth-Trunstadt junction to the Bamberg Harbor junction and keeping the same distance to the patrol car ahead of it. In that position, the officers determined that the Tesla driver was leaning in his seat with his eyes closed and that his hands were not on the steering wheel. This confirmed their suspicion that he had switched the driving over to the autopilot and had fallen asleep. After about 15 minutes the man finally woke up and followed the instructions of the police. His control of the car showed indications typical of drugs. In the footwell the officers also found a so-called steering wheel weight. This contraption is attached to the steering wheel in order to trick the vehicle's safety features by fooling it into thinking that he had his hand on the wheel.

​

An investigation was initiated against the Tesla driver for the offense of endangering street traffic. His driver's license has been waived until the court decision.

---

So then a Tesla requires you to keep your hand on the wheel even in autopilot mode? But wouldn't that then preclude being able to "drive" in the back seat?Or does a Tesla allow for you to disengage safety protocols? Never a good idea in the holodeck; never a good idea on the road.