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Author Topic:   Lost Christianities
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8887
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 1 of 29 (903993)
12-12-2022 7:30 AM


I came across this video lecture by Bart Ehrman that's all about the gospels that didn't make the cut for the cannon and the various Christian sects that were all competing for their own brand of Christianity to win though.
The winners were of course those that we have today - the "Orthodox" - and they got to write the history and destroy most of the texts for the other gospels. But some have been found in hidden stashes.
It's history, not exactly religion. I just thought others might be interested too.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Tangle, posted 12-18-2022 3:38 AM Tangle has not replied
 Message 4 by AZPaul3, posted 12-20-2022 3:11 AM Tangle has not replied
 Message 6 by Mahershalalhashbaz, posted 12-26-2022 6:47 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8887
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 2 of 29 (903994)
12-18-2022 3:38 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Tangle
12-12-2022 7:30 AM


Bump

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Tangle, posted 12-12-2022 7:30 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3964
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 3 of 29 (903996)
12-20-2022 2:58 AM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the Lost Christianities thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 7476
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 4 of 29 (903997)
12-20-2022 3:11 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Tangle
12-12-2022 7:30 AM


I just thought others might be interested too.
Very interested. Thank you.
I like having my views on things reinforced.
Bible: Crazy stories about a crazy religion written by no one knows who.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Phat, posted 12-29-2022 8:03 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8887
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 5 of 29 (904007)
12-20-2022 7:17 AM


It could have all been so different...

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


  
Mahershalalhashbaz
Junior Member
Posts: 5
Joined: 12-23-2022


(1)
Message 6 of 29 (904294)
12-26-2022 6:47 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Tangle
12-12-2022 7:30 AM


the gospels that didn't make the cut
Those gospels that didn't make the cut would appear to be at 4:21 the Gnostic Gospels. (I'd include a screen shot if I knew how to do it.)
They didn't make the cut for the very good reason that they were known to not be of Apostolic Origin. The Gospel of Thomas for instance was written about 150AD and clearly after the death of all those who knew Jesus. While it includes many authentic sayings it also includes fake sayings to promote gnosticism.
Actually Luke refers to "Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled among us" which suggests there were other accounts even during the lifetimes of the Apostles. The four canonical gospels were accepted by the church because those who knew Jesus were alive to verify their accuracy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Tangle, posted 12-12-2022 7:30 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Theodoric, posted 12-26-2022 10:05 AM Mahershalalhashbaz has not replied
 Message 9 by Tangle, posted 12-26-2022 10:47 AM Mahershalalhashbaz has not replied
 Message 10 by ringo, posted 12-27-2022 11:35 AM Mahershalalhashbaz has not replied

  
Mahershalalhashbaz
Junior Member
Posts: 5
Joined: 12-23-2022


(1)
Message 7 of 29 (904295)
12-26-2022 6:56 AM


Why You Don't Let Bart Ehrman Interpret the Bible for You
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjFqbVR_Ogw

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Phat, posted 12-29-2022 7:49 AM Mahershalalhashbaz has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 8082
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 8 of 29 (904296)
12-26-2022 10:05 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Mahershalalhashbaz
12-26-2022 6:47 AM


Re: the gospels that didn't make the cut
The four canonical gospels were accepted by the church because those who knew Jesus were alive to verify their accuracy.
You don't even know who wrote these words. There is no evidence anything was verified.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Mahershalalhashbaz, posted 12-26-2022 6:47 AM Mahershalalhashbaz has not replied

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Tangle
Member
Posts: 8887
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 9 of 29 (904297)
12-26-2022 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Mahershalalhashbaz
12-26-2022 6:47 AM


Re: the gospels that didn't make the cut
baz writes:
The four canonical gospels were accepted by the church because those who knew Jesus were alive to verify their accuracy.
Evidence please.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Mahershalalhashbaz, posted 12-26-2022 6:47 AM Mahershalalhashbaz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Phat, posted 12-29-2022 7:55 AM Tangle has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 20810
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.4


(1)
Message 10 of 29 (904353)
12-27-2022 11:35 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Mahershalalhashbaz
12-26-2022 6:47 AM


Re: the gospels that didn't make the cut
Mahershalalhashbaz writes:
The four canonical gospels were accepted by the church....
There is no such thing as "the church". Different churches have different canons.

Come all of you cowboys all over this land,
I'll teach you the law of the Ranger's Command:
To hold a six shooter, and never to run
As long as there's bullets in both of your guns.
-- Woody Guthrie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Mahershalalhashbaz, posted 12-26-2022 6:47 AM Mahershalalhashbaz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Phat, posted 12-29-2022 7:51 AM ringo has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 17036
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 11 of 29 (904408)
12-29-2022 7:49 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Mahershalalhashbaz
12-26-2022 6:56 AM


Debate by Video
Great video!! These old codgers around here hate the idea of "debate through video" but they are just old and dont understand technology. Im surprised they even know how to use their cellphones!~
Welcome to EvC by the way.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Mahershalalhashbaz, posted 12-26-2022 6:56 AM Mahershalalhashbaz has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 17036
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 12 of 29 (904409)
12-29-2022 7:51 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by ringo
12-27-2022 11:35 AM


Re: the gospels that didn't make the cut
There is indeed such a thing as "the church". The church is the people on this planet who are called out and/or chosen by the Creator himself. Of course, you will argue that I lack evidence, but among believers, the evidence is in our hearts and not our carnally thinking minds.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by ringo, posted 12-27-2022 11:35 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by ringo, posted 12-30-2022 10:49 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 17036
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 13 of 29 (904410)
12-29-2022 7:55 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Tangle
12-26-2022 10:47 AM


Re: the gospels that didn't make the cut
Evidence Schmevidence.
Perhaps our new member just likes to air his opinion. You got a problem with that?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Tangle, posted 12-26-2022 10:47 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Tangle, posted 12-29-2022 9:17 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 17036
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 14 of 29 (904411)
12-29-2022 8:00 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Theodoric
12-26-2022 10:05 AM


Re: the gospels that didn't make the cut
I suspect that our new member accepts the argument of Content over Source. You of course are an old school scholar who does things the old fashioned way. Who gives a whit about who wrote words? You claim that the Bible was written by humans, which we can accept. Where we differ, however, is that we (im assuming our new member also) believe that the Bible was inspired. It is not simply a book written by fallible humans with a secular motive to control the population.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Theodoric, posted 12-26-2022 10:05 AM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by ringo, posted 12-30-2022 10:54 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 17036
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 15 of 29 (904412)
12-29-2022 8:03 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by AZPaul3
12-20-2022 3:11 AM


AZ Does It
AZPaul3 writes:
I like having my views on things reinforced.
Perhaps my only reason for existence on this earth is/was to overturn your apple cart.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by AZPaul3, posted 12-20-2022 3:11 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

Replies to this message:
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