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Author Topic:   No tipping?
Percy
Member
Posts: 21347
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 1 of 41 (770866)
10-14-2015 9:01 PM


Not a topic I've discussed at all with other people, but I'm sure i'm not alone in being uncomfortable with tipping. There's just so much uncertainty and anxiety surrounding when and how much. But if there's anywhere I feel absolutely comfortable with tipping it's in restaurants. There's no question about whether or not to tip because you always tip. And there's not much question about how much to tip because it's 15%, plus or minus depending upon the quality of service.
Of course, this isn't strictly true. Do you tip the person who brings your Applebee's Carside to Go? Is the big tip you just gave the excellent waitperson actually pooled and shared equally among all the dining room staff? So there *are* unknowns, but for the most part it's something I can deal with.
But today brings the news that a major restauranteur in New York City will be eliminating tipping in all its restaurants by the end of next year (Danny Meyer Restaurants to Eliminate Tipping). The last bastion of tipping certitude, gone! Or at least it will be if this catches on.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Coragyps, posted 10-14-2015 10:00 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 4 by ringo, posted 10-15-2015 12:13 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 6 by Taq, posted 10-15-2015 4:10 PM Percy has replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 230 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 2 of 41 (770868)
10-14-2015 10:00 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
10-14-2015 9:01 PM


Texas restaurants can pay tipped staff $2.13 per hour, but are supposed to make total wages up to $7.25 if tips don't get it up to that number. $290 a week, if you get 40 hours. If the employer is playing honestly....
I tip 20% or more, except in cases of spectacularly crappy waiting.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 9 by Jon, posted 10-15-2015 8:05 PM Coragyps has replied

  
Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 166 days)
Posts: 3851
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


(4)
Message 3 of 41 (770870)
10-14-2015 10:09 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Coragyps
10-14-2015 10:00 PM


The old Marxist considers tips
Good riddance. It was always only a way to suck the surplus value out of young labor.
Pay the waitstaff a living wage, and they won't have to choose between tolerating boorish behavior and losing a tip, or serve an indentured servitude in order to work their way into the restaurant industry.
If the service is especially nice, be especially appreciative with smiles and words. Sounds great.
Do you tip the person who brings your Applebee's Carside to Go?
Really? Applebee's Carside to Go?
If they wore skates and pleated skirts, yes...yes, I would.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence

This message is a reply to:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 20915
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 4 of 41 (770899)
10-15-2015 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
10-14-2015 9:01 PM


Percy writes:
Do you tip the person who brings your Applebee's Carside to Go?
At Tim Hortons, I put my change in the charity box. (The service is very slow - waiting on customers seems to be last on their priority list - but I'm too Canadian to complain.)
I don't feel obligated to tip anywhere, though I will contribute to the tip if I'm with other people. I do feel obligated to treat the staff like friends or family.

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Coyote
Member (Idle past 1601 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 5 of 41 (770913)
10-15-2015 4:00 PM


Tipping
Mrs. Coyote and I have a local breakfast and lunch cafe we go to every Monday morning, as well as random other days.
The waitresses all know our order, and have the coffee on the table almost before we sit down; they have the order into the kitchen moments later. They are all very friendly, and some of them are cute besides.
Of course we tip, and tip quite well. The overall experience is very pleasant and well worth the tips.

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9323
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.4


(1)
Message 6 of 41 (770914)
10-15-2015 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
10-14-2015 9:01 PM


Rules for Tipping
My rules for tipping is that they have to sit me, bring me water, ask if I want something else to drink, bring me a menu, take my order, bring my order to me, check in at least once, and bring me my check. If one of those things are missing, then the tip is in doubt. Of course, this excludes the pizza guy who brings food to my house.
If I have to go to a counter and order, no tip. If I call in the order and pick it up, no tip. If it's a buffet, no tip.
quote:
But today brings the news that a major restauranteur in New York City will be eliminating tipping in all its restaurants by the end of next year (Danny Meyer Restaurants to Eliminate Tipping). The last bastion of tipping certitude, gone! Or at least it will be if this catches on.
What I would be curious about is if the waiters are being compensated in keeping with their peers at restaurants of equal quality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Percy, posted 10-14-2015 9:01 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by RAZD, posted 10-15-2015 5:08 PM Taq has not replied
 Message 8 by NoNukes, posted 10-15-2015 5:34 PM Taq has not replied
 Message 10 by Percy, posted 10-16-2015 8:31 AM Taq has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 900 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 7 of 41 (770915)
10-15-2015 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Taq
10-15-2015 4:10 PM


Re: Rules for Tipping
My rules for tipping is that they have to sit me, bring me water, ask if I want something else to drink, bring me a menu, take my order, bring my order to me, check in at least once, and bring me my check ...
Agree.
But I never tip cows.
Enjoy

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This message is a reply to:
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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 41 (770916)
10-15-2015 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Taq
10-15-2015 4:10 PM


Re: Rules for Tipping
If I have to go to a counter and order, no tip. If I call in the order and pick it up, no tip. If it's a buffet, no tip.
I do tip at a buffet if they do all the other things Taq listed else except take my food order and bring it. Do other people not do that?
I found out last week that I cannot stand it when the waiter hovers over me and my SO at a buffet restaurant. I almost blew off the tip that time.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

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Jon
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 41 (770922)
10-15-2015 8:05 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Coragyps
10-14-2015 10:00 PM


Texas restaurants can pay tipped staff $2.13 per hour, but are supposed to make total wages up to $7.25 if tips don't get it up to that number. $290 a week, if you get 40 hours. If the employer is playing honestly....
Not allowed in Minnesota.
Curiously, how much does a breakfast with pancakes, a couple strips of bacon, a couple eggs, and hash-browns cost at one of your chain family diners?

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Coragyps, posted 10-14-2015 10:00 PM Coragyps has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Coragyps, posted 10-16-2015 9:32 AM Jon has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 21347
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 10 of 41 (770939)
10-16-2015 8:31 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Taq
10-15-2015 4:10 PM


Re: Rules for Tipping
Taq writes:
If it's a buffet, no tip.
Sometimes I have problems figuring out whether to tip at a buffet. There's a Chinese buffet and an Indian buffet that we visit every so often, and at both they set the table, fill the water glasses and keep them filled, take our drink orders at the beginning, and take our desert orders at the end (no desert at the Chinese buffet). Now I'm torn. It does seem to me like there should be a tip, but 15% feels way too high, but if I leave half that and they expect 15% then I'm sending an unintended message of poor service. Uncertainty like this drives me crazy. Usually we're out in a group and someone volunteers to figure out how much everyone owes, and then I just go with it, thereby circumventing the whole ethical dilemma.
I've often wondered if waiting tables is as lucrative as my cursory calculations tell me. If you take your average chain restaurant like Longhorn's or TGI Fridays or Chile's or Applebee's or Ruby Tuesday and so forth, and you take an average party of four who runs up a hundred dollar bill, the tip is going to be $15. If a waitperson can handle three tables per hour, then on a three hour dinner shift that's nine tables for total tips of $135. Say the dining room is empty by the end of the shift, but then there's another hour of cleanup duties for a total shift of four hours. At $5/hour that $20 in pay, add to that the $135 in tips for a total of $155, then divide by the four hours of total work and that's near $40/hour.
This makes waiting tables seem very lucrative, so what am I missing? Is it that there's only a small number of available busy shifts, so not many of the hours worked are that lucrative? Is it that the tips actually get shared with other staff? Something else?
--Percy

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 Message 6 by Taq, posted 10-15-2015 4:10 PM Taq has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by NoNukes, posted 10-16-2015 8:50 AM Percy has replied
 Message 13 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-16-2015 9:56 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 41 (770941)
10-16-2015 8:50 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Percy
10-16-2015 8:31 AM


Re: Rules for Tipping
Sometimes I have problems figuring out whether to tip at a buffet. There's a Chinese buffet and an Indian buffet that we visit every so often, and at both they set the table, fill the water glasses and keep them filled, take our drink orders at the beginning, and take our desert orders at the end (no desert at the Chinese buffet).
I don't feel obligated to leave a large tip at the Chinese buffet.
I'm not sure all of your assumptions about restaurants are correct. The average for chains is something like half of what you've calculated. Maybe your guess at average table size and turn around time are off.
And in NC at least, the regular pay is something like $2.13 an hour.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Percy, posted 10-16-2015 8:31 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Percy, posted 10-16-2015 2:30 PM NoNukes has replied
 Message 15 by Modulous, posted 10-16-2015 2:53 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 230 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 12 of 41 (770943)
10-16-2015 9:32 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Jon
10-15-2015 8:05 PM


Chain diners - IHOP, Denny's, etc., are about $8 or $9 for a breakfast like that, with the coffee additional. A mom-n-pop cafe might be $2 cheaper.

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 Message 9 by Jon, posted 10-15-2015 8:05 PM Jon has replied

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(8)
Message 13 of 41 (770944)
10-16-2015 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by Percy
10-16-2015 8:31 AM


Re: Rules for Tipping
but 15% feels way too high
Why do you care? So what if you tip too high?
Is the extra couple of bucks that you loose going to put you out?
For buffets, I just give them $5 regardless of the percentage that comes out to be.
For restaurants, I look at the total, move the decimal place to the left a digit, round up to the nearest whole dollar and then double it.
I figure that the few extra dollars it costs me is negligible, but for them the fact that it comes out to be ~25% tip would make them a lot more happier than it hurts me to loose a couple bucks.
My cost is small, their gain is large. Why not do that for someone? Especially when you're basing the opposition on how you feel about the quantity of the percentage - that doesn't make sense to me. Why care about the the number in the percentage?
(This is all assuming the service isn't bad)

This message is a reply to:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 21347
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 14 of 41 (770969)
10-16-2015 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by NoNukes
10-16-2015 8:50 AM


Re: Rules for Tipping
NoNukes writes:
I'm not sure all of your assumptions about restaurants are correct. The average for chains is something like half of what you've calculated. Maybe your guess at average table size and turn around time are off.
It does seem to me that the dinner shift at a typical chain restaurant like TGI Friday's and Longhorn should be very lucrative. I was assuming an average table size of four, and that a server could handle three tables per hour. If the average table size is smaller (which seems weird for the dinner hour, but anyway) then a server could handle more tables per hour. I think my numbers are pretty conservative. Certainly servers can handle more than three tables per hour.
At Yahoo Answers someone asked the question How many tables does a waitress take on an 8 hour shift and how much tips do they make per day?". The first answer offered the example of a Saturday night where in three hours he served 65 people, which is twice as many as my 9 tables of four in three hours. He says he "walked with $375." If he had a couple hours of sidework for a total of 5 work hours at $5/hour or $25, that's a total of $400 for 5 hours work, or $80/hour. That seems very lucrative to me. I know the work is hard, but it still seems very lucrative.
Why the question? A couple times in my life I've wondered, "What if it all went to hell for me and I had to just get a job, just any job, just to bring in some money. What would I do?" Waiting tables at one of those restaurants I named seemed like it might be something pretty lucrative. Just wondering. Of course, that wondering was long ago. No way I could handle a long table waiting shift now.
On our vacations we usually plot our own course and stay off the beaten trail, but last year we figured it was beyond our planning abilities to plot our own tour of Alaska, so we signed up for a 10 day tour. One thing we discovered that we hadn't counted on was that you have to tip nearly everybody. We even tipped a train conductor. I did get a sort of sense that some people shared my discomfort about tipping, and there were a few people who seemed reluctant to tip at all, as far as I could tell. I imagine that for some people it was just that year's vacation, while for other people it was the trip of a lifetime and they were maxed out.
Responding to Coragyps comment about downscale restaurants like IHOP and Denny's, I wasn't thinking of them, and I wonder if maybe tipping is less at those places. Also, they don't have bars, right? Without bars their average bill would be less.
Responding to Cat Sci, in your scenarios is there still a connection between the tip and the quality of service? If so, it wasn't apparent, and if not, then what's the point of a tip?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by NoNukes, posted 10-16-2015 8:50 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-16-2015 3:18 PM Percy has replied
 Message 17 by NoNukes, posted 10-16-2015 3:28 PM Percy has replied

  
Modulous
Member (Idle past 1599 days)
Posts: 7789
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 15 of 41 (770971)
10-16-2015 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by NoNukes
10-16-2015 8:50 AM


Re: Rules for Tipping
And in NC at least, the regular pay is something like $2.13 an hour.
What?
WHAT?
UK waiters, over the age of 25 can expect about $10-11.00/hour + tips. Even 15 year old waiters can expect $6 / hour + tips.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by ringo, posted 10-17-2015 11:57 AM Modulous has replied

  
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