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Author Topic:   Is the Bible the WORD of God or the WORD of Satan?
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 273 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 1 of 52 (704876)
08-19-2013 3:57 PM


Is the Bible the WORD of God or the WORD of Satan?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c0RFxXrYzg&feature=related
Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and tortuous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we call it the word of a demon than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind; and, for my part, I sincerely detest it, as I detest everything that is cruel. [Thomas Paine, The Age of Reason]
As to the book called the bible, it is blasphemy to call it the Word of God. It is a book of lies and contradictions and a history of bad times and bad men. [Thomas Paine, writing to Andrew Dean August 15, 1806]
The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully.
Richard Dawkins, The God Delusion
---------------------------------------------------
Many intelligent men have condemned the Bible and it’s God as completely immoral. Be they from ancient days or more modern times, the morality of God has been rejected by moral men and legislators of the laws we mostly all live under. Never has biblical laws and commandments been shown desirable for most of us to live under.
Christians tend not to like to discuss the morals taught by the Bible. The fact that Christians do not promote their laws over secular law indicate that they are aware of the immoral nature of their genocidal son murdering God and the draconian laws that Christians would put in place.
Satan is said to be able to deceive the whole world with his God given power and dogma says that he has dominion over the earth. Most believers say that the bible is the word of God even though it shows God in a less than favorable light even when compared to Satan. Even Christians admit this and when they do they fall back on their standard excuse of God being able and justified in doing whatever he likes to us, moral or not, because he owns us. That is a cop out to my way of thinking.
Satan has the power to deceive the whole world.
Is the WORD of God, --- because of the fact that it shows God to be more Satanic-like than God-like, --- really the WORD of Satan and not of God?
Regards
DL
P. S. A quick summery of how Jesus was made into the WORD by men.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6AfFcAmx-Ro&feature=relmfu

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Phat, posted 08-19-2013 5:25 PM Greatest I am has replied
 Message 4 by arachnophilia, posted 08-19-2013 5:30 PM Greatest I am has not replied
 Message 5 by jar, posted 08-19-2013 5:53 PM Greatest I am has replied
 Message 7 by Percy, posted 08-20-2013 8:11 AM Greatest I am has replied

  
AdminPhat
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 52 (704878)
08-19-2013 5:11 PM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the Is the Bible the WORD of God or the WORD of Satan? thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.
************************************************
I see that you already have two negative votes, and to be honest I find myself in disagreement with this topic, after viewing your sources. The topic is framed properly, however, so here we go.....
Edited by AdminPhat, : clarification

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 3 of 52 (704879)
08-19-2013 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
08-19-2013 3:57 PM


Heretics and Heresies
To begin with, its really difficult to get any idea where you come from in regards to your personal stance. So let me start with some basic questions, in order to more properly frame your topic.
GIA writes:
Many intelligent men have condemned the Bible and it’s God as completely immoral.
Some believe that the Bible is inspired through humans alone. Others believe that the Good Book has inspiration beyond fallible human wisdom. Where do you stand? Do you believe that human intelligence is all that there ever was or will be, or do you believe that God exists(apart from your own Ego) and that humans have never been able to describe such a Being?
GIA writes:
Christians tend not to like to discuss the morals taught by the Bible.
Quite a general statement. Some do and some don't. We can discuss specific morality if you like.
CL Stam writes:
In brief, the mystery as it relates to the present, is the glorious truth that God
has concluded both Jew and Gentile in unbelief
that He might have mercy upon
all (Rom. 11:32) and that He might reconcile both unto God in one body by the
Cross (Eph. 2:16)
GIA writes:
...That is a cop out to my way of thinking.
Satan has the power to deceive the whole world.
Perhaps Satan has hijacked your way of thinking....ever consider that?
Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


(3)
Message 4 of 52 (704880)
08-19-2013 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
08-19-2013 3:57 PM


more accurately, our concepts of what "god" is has changed fairly drastically in the last 3,000 years.
prior to the earliest biblical texts, gods were impersonal, but very much like humans with flaws and problems and struggles. they were largely treated as metaphorical of concepts and things in the real world. the earliest biblical texts (like J) come along and treat the first incarnations of the jewish god, yahweh, as much more personally involved, impacting the real world in direct ways, but still very human and flawed. J writes of a god who is basically a walking paradox, totally unlike humans, and yet basically the same. J's god is not necessarily just, but not necessarily unjust either. he does some pretty horrible things, but so do people.
over the course of the biblical period, this god becomes more and more abstract, withdrawn from human existence. in the post biblical period, we arrive a classical theist, "tri-omni" god, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent... and omni-benevolent. and we take this to be the definition of god. but it's pretty far removed from first biblical portrayals of god, and the mythology that preceded it, and it becomes very hard to read those things, assuming the context of the god of classical theism.
the adversary (ha-satan), on the other hand, has become increasingly powerful in the mythology. he began as an agent of god, one of god's many sons, who was in charge of testing and prosecuting humanity, entirely under the service of god. this eventually became "evil", a territory that once claimed by god himself, and so the adversary became god's adversary instead of ours. this mythology actually goes back pretty far, though it curiously doesn't begin with "satan", but azazel.
and so you end up with this idea that our classical theist god couldn't have been behind the bible, as many of the things god does in it appear evil, and the devil, who is evil, must have had a hand in it. but really, the only things that had any hand in it were human beings, who had ideas that changed over time.

אָרַח

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Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 5 of 52 (704882)
08-19-2013 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
08-19-2013 3:57 PM


The Bible is neither the word of God or Satan.
The Bible is neither the word of God or of Satan; rather it is an anthology of anthologies and a collection of works covering several totally different subjects.
The main types and purposes of different parts of the Bible are passages that show how humans of different eras, cultures, societies and mythos view God and their relationship with that God; passages that develop and create a people and define their identity over time; passages that define the evolving legal system of specific cultures and passages that present general philosophy.
There is another point and that is there is no such thing as "The Bible", different Chapters of Club Christian have decided varying lists of what should be considered as Books of the Bible. Since there is no uniform and universal Canon the most reasonable conclusion is that Bibles are simply the work of man.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Greatest I am, posted 08-19-2013 3:57 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


(1)
Message 6 of 52 (704886)
08-19-2013 6:35 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by arachnophilia
08-19-2013 5:30 PM


Hey, spidey--lovely to see you again.
arach writes:
the adversary (ha-satan), on the other hand, has become increasingly powerful in the mythology. he began as an agent of god, one of god's many sons, who was in charge of testing and prosecuting humanity, entirely under the service of god. this eventually became "evil", a territory that once claimed by god himself, and so the adversary became god's adversary instead of ours.
I just finished reading Elaine Pagels' The Origin of Satan, which Wiki describes as arguing "that the figure of Satan became a way for Jews and Christians to demonize their religious and cultural opponents, namely, pagans, other Christian sects, and Jews."
I found it fascinating and persuasive. I'll never hear references to "demonizing the opposition" in quite the same way again.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by arachnophilia, posted 08-19-2013 5:30 PM arachnophilia has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by arachnophilia, posted 08-20-2013 5:14 PM Omnivorous has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.1


(2)
Message 7 of 52 (704912)
08-20-2013 8:11 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
08-19-2013 3:57 PM


As to whether God or Satan wrote the Bible, the answer is yes, man wrote the Bible.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Greatest I am, posted 08-19-2013 3:57 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Greatest I am, posted 08-23-2013 4:58 PM Percy has replied

  
arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 8 of 52 (704934)
08-20-2013 5:14 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Omnivorous
08-19-2013 6:35 PM


Omnivorous writes:
I found it fascinating and persuasive. I'll never hear references to "demonizing the opposition" in quite the same way again.
the term itself, "adversary" is used first to refer to actual wordly adversaries of the ancient israelites, and contains no particular spiritual connotation. the word itself isn't particularly special.
i kind of wonder, actually, if job is one of the first to refer to the adversary in a spiritual sense, as the author of job was probably trying to write allegory pertinent to his own current events. job represents judah, so perhaps the adversary is babylon.
Hey, spidey--lovely to see you again.
i still lurk occasionally, but i haven't seen too many threads i felt like participating in recently...
Edited by arachnophilia, : No reason given.

אָרַח

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Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 9 of 52 (704942)
08-20-2013 6:06 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by arachnophilia
08-20-2013 5:14 PM


arach writes:
i still lurk occasionally, but i haven't seen too many threads i felt like participating in recently...
true dat.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by arachnophilia, posted 08-20-2013 5:14 PM arachnophilia has not replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 273 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 10 of 52 (705162)
08-23-2013 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Phat
08-19-2013 5:25 PM


Re: Heretics and Heresies
Thugpreacha
I think that the bible is a plagiarized consolidation of many of the older traditions of that day. Nothing much in it is original. I think Rome created the N T.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJgvws0ZYUE
As for the O. T. I think it was born in Egypt and Sumer.
2007-Doc Zone - Pagan Christ 1 of 3 - Vido Dailymotion
Perhaps Satan has hijacked your way of thinking....ever consider that?
How could I tell during my apotheosis if it was Satan or God?
Dogma says that Satan has his God given power to deceive us all and God himself adds even more deception to the mix.
Now, therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the Lord hath spoken evil concerning thee.
1Kings 22:23
Now therefore, behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets.
2 Chron 18:22
Ah, Lord GOD! surely thou hast greatly deceived this people.
Jer 4:10
O Lord, thou hast deceived me, and I was deceived. Jer 20:7
And if a prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the Lord have deceived that prophet.
Ezekiel 14:9
For this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie.
Thessalonians 2:11
To me, God’s worse lie was to Adam and Eve. He told them they could eat of the tree of life and then reneged and in a real sense murdered them by denying them a remedy.
All I can do is go with morals and hope for the best.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Phat, posted 08-19-2013 5:25 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

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Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 273 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 11 of 52 (705163)
08-23-2013 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by jar
08-19-2013 5:53 PM


Re: The Bible is neither the word of God or Satan.
jar
I agree.
Was it moral men or something else?
Regards
DL

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 Message 5 by jar, posted 08-19-2013 5:53 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 16 by kofh2u, posted 08-24-2013 11:08 AM Greatest I am has replied

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 273 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 12 of 52 (705164)
08-23-2013 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Percy
08-20-2013 8:11 AM


Percy
Moral men or something else?
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Percy, posted 08-20-2013 8:11 AM Percy has replied

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 Message 15 by Percy, posted 08-24-2013 8:49 AM Greatest I am has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 13 of 52 (705165)
08-23-2013 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Greatest I am
08-23-2013 4:56 PM


Re: The Bible is neither the word of God or Satan.
I'm not even sure what "Was it moral men or something else" could even mean.
Were the authors of the various books moral within the morals of the day? Who know or cares.
In the books that might deal with morals did the authors accurately reflect the morals of their era, culture, society? External evidence seems to indicate that they did.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Greatest I am, posted 08-23-2013 4:56 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
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arachnophilia
Member (Idle past 1343 days)
Posts: 9069
From: god's waiting room
Joined: 05-21-2004


Message 14 of 52 (705173)
08-23-2013 9:46 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Greatest I am
08-23-2013 4:51 PM


Re: Heretics and Heresies
"plagiarized" is probably not the right word. certain parts definitely play on, adapt, invert, alter, or otherwise employ myths that are common to the area.
i'm also not sure there is any real egyptian influence.

אָרַח

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Greatest I am, posted 08-23-2013 4:51 PM Greatest I am has replied

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Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 15 of 52 (705182)
08-24-2013 8:49 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Greatest I am
08-23-2013 4:58 PM


Greatest I am writes:
Percy writes:
As to whether God or Satan wrote the Bible, the answer is yes, man wrote the Bible.
Moral men or something else?
Yes.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Greatest I am, posted 08-23-2013 4:58 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Greatest I am, posted 08-24-2013 4:14 PM Percy has replied

  
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