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Author Topic:   Home and Away Games
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 1 of 11 (665132)
06-08-2012 3:01 PM


I've recently spent quite a lot of time spectating on creationist forums trying to properly understand their arguments. They all have several big hitters that have researched and rehearsed their positions and are, at least superficially, credible.
They all have a similar problem to EVC in that they are populated by creationists with only a smattering of atheists so that when an atheist does present an argument he's dogpiled and suffocated in the same way that creationists complain about here. So, I had a thought....
How about arranging a some joint discussions, our team versus theirs, home and away?
That way it would be a fair fight with common rules and joint moderation. If it was possible to do technically, I think it would make for a good spectator spectacle too, attracting lurkers from both sides of the argument.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9973
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.7


Message 2 of 11 (665134)
06-08-2012 3:13 PM


Count me in
If you could get The Evolution Fairytale to participate in this sort of debate I would love to contribute. It didn't take long for me to get booted from their site in the past, and they refuse to allow me re-entrance so I feel like there is some unfinished business.

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subbie
Member (Idle past 1255 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 3 of 11 (665139)
06-08-2012 4:11 PM


I'm bored
I'll give it a try.
I might suggest something like a Great Debate format, if possible. Limit the participation in any given thread to an equal number of participants from either side, and try to delineate a topic for each thread to keep the discussion productive.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
Howling about evidence is a conversation stopper, and it never stops to think if the claim could possibly be true -- foreveryoung

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fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 4145 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 4 of 11 (665147)
06-08-2012 5:43 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by subbie
06-08-2012 4:11 PM


Re: I'm bored
That would be fun to watch, especially if there could be some way to score it that both sides agreed upon. (like that would ever happen... it would be a debate about how to run the debate.

A nation of sheep will beget a government of wolves.
― Edward R. Murrow
"Yeah, I know. I'm guilty. I understand that. I knew it was a crime, and I did it anyways. Shit, why argue? I'm a fucking criminal, look at me." - Raoul Duke

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Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 5 of 11 (665172)
06-09-2012 7:32 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Taq
06-08-2012 3:13 PM


Re: Count me in
Yes, I was banned from evolutionary fairy stories site within about 48 hours and without warning. It seems that they prefer to preach rather than debate - although they say the opposite.
But it's fascinating to read the posts there - in many respects it's a mirror image of EVC with all the same complaints but in reverse.
.....tumbleweed...blowing......
No evolutionist responses...
Its ironic that when confronted with a real and serious contradiction with evolution that people turn tail and hide...
This is the "head in sand" mentality that really frustrates me, since if people claim to be scientists then they MUST be open to all ideas and investigate all loop holes and contradictions in order to define, expand or correct an idea, hypothesis or theory. Failure to do so renders that person or group of persons literally unscientific.
Science is much more than just using data. It is about a state of mind, taking a neutral stance on everything, (which is nigh impossible to do), and being willing to admit that your initial hypothesis is wrong if the data doesn't fit. Following the data, and just the data, is a very basic but important aspect. It is a shame that evolution deviates from this.
They don't get answers because those qualified to answer are randomly banned when they try to.
So it seems to me, that if we and they really do wish to bash this out properly we need to meet as teams somehow.

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

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Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 6 of 11 (665178)
06-09-2012 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Tangle
06-09-2012 7:32 AM


Re: Count me in
They must be pleased --- it must be every creationist's dream to invent a new fallacy, and this one has a rare and fine stupidity that would please the palate of a Ham or even a Hovind.
What shall we call it? I suggest "The Argument From Having Shot All The Dissidents". Or perhaps "The Argument From Being Stalin", which has the merit of being shorter. This occurs when someone, having exercised his authority to ensure that no-one can disagree with him, declares that his views must be right because no-one does disagree with him.
What's most wonderful about it, I think, is that the prating halfwit actually uses the phrase "head in sand mentality". The creationist taste for hypocrisy seems at times even to exceed their coarser desire for mere factual error.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Tangle, posted 06-09-2012 7:32 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 7 of 11 (665331)
06-12-2012 4:24 AM


Not interested Percy? Ron, the Admin at Evolutionary Fairy Tales really needs arguing with on open ground.
(I doubt he's be happy giving up equivocation dictatorship but worth a try I reckon)

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Percy, posted 06-12-2012 8:23 AM Tangle has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22392
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 8 of 11 (665340)
06-12-2012 8:23 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Tangle
06-12-2012 4:24 AM


I don't know a moderator over there named Ron, must be new since my last visit three years ago.
I have mentioned the possibility of working together to people over there like Fred Williams, Adam Nagy and Ikester, but they never even acknowledged the suggestion.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Tangle, posted 06-12-2012 4:24 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
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Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3912 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 9 of 11 (665349)
06-12-2012 10:24 AM


Hosting and Rules
You could do hosting by having each site manage one topic at a time. EvC could host a science topic while the other a bible topic. Could even be switched.
Rules should include an agreement not to ban the selected participants and not to delete any posts. The content of the threads should belong to both sites, with explicit permission to reproduce their contents in full at the other site.
The only way to do scoring in my mind is if someone wanted to hunt down a focus group who are legitimatly on the fence and poll them before and after.
I have 8 weeks of summer left and would love to participate!

BUT if objects for gratitude and admiration are our desire, do they not present themselves every hour to our eyes? Do we not see a fair creation prepared to receive us the instant we are born --a world furnished to our hands, that cost us nothing? Is it we that light up the sun; that pour down the rain; and fill the earth with abundance? Whether we sleep or wake, the vast machinery of the universe still goes on. Are these things, and the blessings they indicate in future, nothing to, us? Can our gross feelings be excited by no other subjects than tragedy and suicide? Or is the gloomy pride of man become so intolerable, that nothing can flatter it but a sacrifice of the Creator? --Thomas Paine

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 10 of 11 (665367)
06-12-2012 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Percy
06-12-2012 8:23 AM


This is the chap. He really is very fond of himself. His bio is provided in full, up front in every post.
Ron
Admin
Admin Team
6,148 posts
Gender:Male
Location:Johnstown, PA
Interests:I enjoy playing, composing and recording music, and writing poetry and lyrics. I play electric and acoustic guitars, bass guitars, drums and percussion.
I’m an avid reader, and enjoy history (especially ancient history), philosophy, technical literature that lends itself to practical applications, science fiction and science fact, world religion (especially Judeao-Christian), debate transcripts, and anything concerning all phases of Christian Apologetics (Philosophical, Historical, scientific etc).
I’m an avid hunter, enjoy shooting various weapons, and reload various calibers of hand-gun and rifle cartridges. I used to be into archery, but don’t really have the time for it anymore.
I’m retired Military, and currently work as a Technical Instructor/Curriculum Developer with over twenty-seven years of technical experience with testing and application of various system applications.
I currently have two pre-grad degrees, and am in the process of pursuing simultaneous post-grad degrees.
Age: 51
Christian
Creationist
Johnstown, PA

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Percy, posted 06-12-2012 8:23 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
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Dirk
Member (Idle past 4024 days)
Posts: 84
Joined: 08-20-2010


(1)
Message 11 of 11 (665369)
06-12-2012 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Tangle
06-12-2012 1:00 PM


Don't think they would agree...
My guess would be that the folks over at Evolutionfairytale would not participate in this. Many of us were banned there, so they probably would not see it as a sincere proposal and probably think that we were simply trying to mock/harass them some more. But nevertheless, it would be great to see this happen!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Tangle, posted 06-12-2012 1:00 PM Tangle has not replied

  
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