Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
1 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The Bible: Is the Author God, Man or Both?
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 1 of 4 (661587)
05-08-2012 10:31 AM


I was having a conversation with Jazzns in another thread but as I had already been chastised for going off topic in that thread I didn’t want it to happen again. I thought that maybe a thread on the topic would be useful.
Jazzns had written this.
Jazzns writes:
Yet you seem perfectly willing to dismiss the obviously historic events of the OT as the "context" of the cultures in which they were written. Why can't that be true for the newer writings?
This was my response:
GDR writes:
I do accept the NT as being personally and culturally conditioned. However that doesn’t mean that what they wrote should be rejected. People recorded things for a reason. Every Biblical author had a point of view and he would write in a way that supports that point of view.
Certainly Matthew had an agenda to connect Jesus to His Jewish roots and looked for ways to make that point. Certainly the writer(s) of the Pastoral Epistles had an agenda that they wanted to convey but that doesn’t make them wrong. Yes there are conflicting opinions in the Bible but IMHO that just makes it more alive. The Christian story is of God working through His created humans beings. He has given us intelligence coupled with enquiring minds along with a sense of morality.
So yes, there are contradictions in the Bible. We don’t have certainty. There is ambiguity. Just look at the different views of Christians on this board.
My own view is that the one constant in the NT is that Jesus was crucified and that He came back in a physical resurrection body. IMHO there is no plausible reason for the Christian movement to get off the ground unless the first Christians, (Jewish though they were of course), were convinced of this fact. I believe that the writers of the Gospels and the Epistles to the best of their ability wrote down the stories of what happened and what it all meant.
Personally I can see no motivation for them to manufacture the whole thing and the Gospel accounts tell a story that isn’t what anyone would write if they were just making it up. It seems obvious to me that they believed what they wrote even if they are writing with their own personal biases. The question then becomes whether or not they were right about the resurrection and then how accurately they recorded the actions and words of Jesus.
We all make up our minds of what we believe about it all and at that point it becomes a faith issue. I believe that the Gospels do tell the story of the resurrection of Jesus in a way that aside from some details is historically accurate. I also believe that the resurrection vindicates the message that in some way the man Jesus was the embodiment of God.
If we just get away from the idea that the Bible has to be inerrant, and that it is God as articulated through Jesus that we worship then we can get an understanding of the nature of God, and that through the teachings of Jesus it is clear that God is good. However, like I said, and no matter how sure I am of what I believe, it is a faith.
Christianity is a faith. It isn’t evidence based in the way that science is which of course does not prove anything about it one way or another. To start with I’d like to make a quick case to provide a rational for coming to a conclusion about the theistic position.
Firstly I contend that it is more plausible to believe that human intelligence and morality are more likely to have evolved from an intelligent moral first cause than from mindless particles without even considering the question of a first cause for the existence of particles.
On the assumption then that we have evolved from an intelligent moral first cause then it is more plausible to assume an ongoing interest and interaction by that pre-existing intelligence than not.
I like to discuss the Bible accepting that the theistic position is correct, that is God (the intelligent moral first cause) exists, and does continue to interact with His creation.
We exist as creatures with the ability to reason. We have a sense of beauty and ugliness, fear and courage, love and hate, right and wrong, good and evil etc. We have enquiring minds with a sense of imagination. It is my belief that God connects with us through human imagination and in one sense, through the choices that we make, we connect with Him.
With this in mind I want to consider the Bible.
Creationists or fundamentalists talk about the Bible as being inspired by God. I’m fine by that but what does it mean?
From the online Oxford dictionary:
quote:
1 [mass noun] the process of being mentally stimulated to do or feel something, especially to do something creative:
Helen had one of her flashes of inspiration
the Malvern Hills have provided inspiration for many artists
the quality of being inspired:
a rare moment of inspiration in an otherwise dull display
[count noun] a person or thing that inspires:
he is an inspiration to everyone
divine influence, especially that supposed to have led to the writing of the Bible.
2a sudden brilliant or timely idea:
then I had an inspiration
So yes, I have no problem in agreeing that the Biblical authors were inspired to write what it was that they wrote, but that does not mean that they wrote without their personal and cultural conditioning impacting their efforts. It does not mean that God gave them word for word dictation. It does not mean that they always got it exactly right or does it not mean that didn’t get it exactly wrong.
My discussion point centres on the reply that I gave to Jazzns in the quote above. I believe that if we take the Bible as a collection of historical texts written by men with all of their personal and cultural biases that we can get a much clearer picture of the nature of God and of His creation, than if we attempt to understand the Bible as a book authored by God Himself.
Edited by GDR, : No reason given.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AdminPD, posted 05-08-2012 12:44 PM GDR has replied

AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 2 of 4 (661598)
05-08-2012 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by GDR
05-08-2012 10:31 AM


Needs a Clearer Topic
Needs a better title. IMO, it is more about discussing your unique acceptance of the manuscripts and those "certain conclusions", not really understanding what is written in the Bible.
I don't think this is a fit for A&I because it is on the science side and what you present isn't evidence based. It is faith based.
Quite frankly, I can't even suggest a good title. Figure out something better.
I would say Bible Study is a better forum fit.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by GDR, posted 05-08-2012 10:31 AM GDR has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by GDR, posted 05-08-2012 7:25 PM AdminPD has not replied

GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 3 of 4 (661617)
05-08-2012 7:25 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by AdminPD
05-08-2012 12:44 PM


Re: Needs a Clearer Topic
OK. I've changed the title and made a couple of other small changes as well in hopes of making it clearer.
Incidentally, I hardly see the position as being unique.
I'm fine with Bible Study.
Thanks

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by AdminPD, posted 05-08-2012 12:44 PM AdminPD has not replied

AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 4 of 4 (661624)
05-08-2012 7:42 PM


Thread Copied to Bible Study Forum
Thread copied to the The Bible: Is the Author God, Man or Both? thread in the Bible Study forum, this copy of the thread has been closed.

Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024