Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,819 Year: 3,076/9,624 Month: 921/1,588 Week: 104/223 Day: 2/13 Hour: 1/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Going to get acess to Ibooks tomorrow:any recommendations?
Kairyu
Member (Idle past 204 days)
Posts: 162
From: netherlands
Joined: 06-23-2010


Message 1 of 27 (658797)
04-09-2012 5:46 PM


I got a Ipad recently, but tomorrow I will be getting my creditcard, so I will be able get my apple ID sorted at last. Already took a look into the Ibooks store on my aunt's Ipad, and it seems that most English books that are not extremely obscure are downloadable on demand.
While I managed to get decent knowledge on the basics of the religion/atheism/science field on the internet, in terms of books, I have read very little, for various reasons(finding books, to lazy to take time to visit stores, privacy reasons, still young, etc).
I already plan to buy The god delusion, not so much because I expect to learn that much from it, but I'm rather curious about it's reputation, and I wish to have a opinion on it. The faith healers is also on my list, as some already have pointed me to it.
I'm looking for some good secular books to improve my knowledge, and eventually I may take a look at Apologetic books should I feel comfortable with them(The more liberal ones at least), for increased objectivity, although that will not be very soon,also because my family and upbringing already makes me familiar with them.
I guess the title pretty explains it all: what are the must-reads?

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Tangle, posted 04-09-2012 5:57 PM Kairyu has not replied
 Message 3 by GDR, posted 04-09-2012 10:50 PM Kairyu has replied
 Message 4 by anglagard, posted 04-10-2012 1:35 AM Kairyu has not replied
 Message 5 by GDR, posted 04-10-2012 1:41 AM Kairyu has not replied
 Message 6 by Phat, posted 04-10-2012 8:35 AM Kairyu has replied
 Message 11 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-10-2012 12:36 PM Kairyu has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 2 of 27 (658799)
04-09-2012 5:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Kairyu
04-09-2012 5:46 PM


Leters to a Christian Nation by Sam Harris is short, brilliant and free (if you google around enough)

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Kairyu, posted 04-09-2012 5:46 PM Kairyu has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 3 of 27 (658813)
04-09-2012 10:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Kairyu
04-09-2012 5:46 PM


HI Kairyu
If you are going to read "The God Delusion" may I, from my side of the fence, suggest a rebuttal to Dawkins in the book Dawkin's Delusion by Alister McGrath.
Happy reading.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Kairyu, posted 04-09-2012 5:46 PM Kairyu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Kairyu, posted 04-10-2012 9:01 AM GDR has not replied

  
anglagard
Member (Idle past 837 days)
Posts: 2339
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006


(2)
Message 4 of 27 (658821)
04-10-2012 1:35 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Kairyu
04-09-2012 5:46 PM


Here's a few
Try the following, if you have not read them already:
1. Guns, Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond- not only generally rated as the top science book but also the top history book of recent time, read it and you will find out why.
2. Godel, Escher, Bach by Douglas Hofstader - a bit older but rated #2 science book by the general populace in my research. Great stuff about AI and recursion.
3. Genome by Matt Ridley - an excellent work, each chapter is about a discrete human chromosome and tells you what it does, fascinating.
4, The Structure of Scientific Revolutions by Thomas Kuhn - essential to understanding how it happens.
As a big fish in a small pond academic librarian, I generally spend around $20k a year on books which I select myself, so I devote a lot of time to reading reviews. Those four I mentioned are absolutely necessary reading according to my sources.

Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Kairyu, posted 04-09-2012 5:46 PM Kairyu has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Jazzns, posted 07-05-2012 10:25 AM anglagard has not replied

  
GDR
Member
Posts: 6202
From: Sidney, BC, Canada
Joined: 05-22-2005
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 5 of 27 (658823)
04-10-2012 1:41 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Kairyu
04-09-2012 5:46 PM


Here is another one that interestingly enough both Straggler and myself found impressively readable and informative even though we are at opposite ends of the atheistic/theistic spectrum.
The Evolution of God by Robert Wright
AbE Just to be clear, it is a secular book.
Edited by GDR, : No reason given.

He has told you, O man, what is good ; And what does the LORD require of you But to do justice, to love kindness, And to walk humbly with your God.
Micah 6:8

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Kairyu, posted 04-09-2012 5:46 PM Kairyu has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 6 of 27 (658834)
04-10-2012 8:35 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Kairyu
04-09-2012 5:46 PM


Confirming Or Challenging Bias
Kairyu writes:
I guess the title pretty explains it all: what are the must-reads?
It depends on what you wish to do. Do you wish to confirm your bias regarding beliefs, ideologies, and culture, or do you wish to challenge them?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Kairyu, posted 04-09-2012 5:46 PM Kairyu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Kairyu, posted 04-10-2012 8:56 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Kairyu
Member (Idle past 204 days)
Posts: 162
From: netherlands
Joined: 06-23-2010


(1)
Message 7 of 27 (658836)
04-10-2012 8:56 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Phat
04-10-2012 8:35 AM


Re: Confirming Or Challenging Bias
I still have Christian family, and I sometimes feel like I have a hindering negative confirmation bias, being gullible for the thing I don't really want to believe. As a result, I'm a bit wary with jumping in the Christian side of things again, while I'm already have been brought up with it and know much of it, while on the skeptical and science side of things I have many gaps in my knowledge.
Still, I'm wary of bias, but the question is:to what am I biased? Has my upbringing and my current environment also left me biased for Christian arguments,even if it's OCD/instrusive thought instead of conventional bias?
So I decided to start with the secular side, and should I eventually have the need to be more objective with my reading, and I'm positive it will not stir my compulsive tendencies, I may pick up others things as well.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Phat, posted 04-10-2012 8:35 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Kairyu
Member (Idle past 204 days)
Posts: 162
From: netherlands
Joined: 06-23-2010


Message 8 of 27 (658837)
04-10-2012 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by GDR
04-09-2012 10:50 PM


Ah, I have heard of that. I might pick it up, or at least a summary, but I already have my doubts about Dawkins approach to the matter. Reviews I have read seem to suggest it does present atheism reasonably, but to keep it for a large crowd, the book does not delve extremely deep into a few arguments, angering many Christians.
I'm more reading it because it's quoted so often by Christians as bad theology, and by atheist as well-written. I want to read it myself because I have no clue how good/bad that book is. And his infamous ranting also got my attention, I'll admit that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by GDR, posted 04-09-2012 10:50 PM GDR has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Modulous, posted 04-10-2012 11:41 AM Kairyu has replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 9 of 27 (658855)
04-10-2012 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Kairyu
04-10-2012 9:01 AM


Ah, I have heard of that. I might pick it up, or at least a summary, but I already have my doubts about Dawkins approach to the matter. Reviews I have read seem to suggest it does present atheism reasonably, but to keep it for a large crowd, the book does not delve extremely deep into a few arguments, angering many Christians.
I haven't read 'The God Delusion' since, like you, I don't think I'd gain anything from it. I do recommend 'Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon' by Daniel C. Dennett. It's a great look at the natural roots of religious ideas. Dennett's writing sounds like the most patient man in the world explaining a sensitive subject in a sympathetic tone.
If Dawkins' tactic is 'shock and awe', then Dennett's tactic is 'hearts and minds'.
For sheer breadth of scope though, might I suggest 'The Portable Atheist' which is a collection of essays compiled by Christopher Hitchens spanning thousands of years of atheistic thought.
And if you thought 'The God Delusion' has a reputation for confrontationalism that makes it worthy of a read: you might want to think about 'God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything', by Christopher Hitchens.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Kairyu, posted 04-10-2012 9:01 AM Kairyu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Kairyu, posted 04-10-2012 12:08 PM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

  
Kairyu
Member (Idle past 204 days)
Posts: 162
From: netherlands
Joined: 06-23-2010


Message 10 of 27 (658857)
04-10-2012 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Modulous
04-10-2012 11:41 AM


These books sound very interesting, I actually already saw breaking the spell mentioned on wikipedia when looking up Dawkins, and his opponents.
I have a limited budget, since I also plan to buy a few works of fiction/ anything else non-fiction that seems interesting to download, so I might not buy much at once, but I will try to get them all eventually.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Modulous, posted 04-10-2012 11:41 AM Modulous has seen this message but not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 11 of 27 (658860)
04-10-2012 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Kairyu
04-09-2012 5:46 PM


I'd recommend Hume's Dialogues Concerning Natural Religion, though if anyone tries to charge you money for it I should point out that it is available free on Gutenberg and elsewhere.
Although it is not strictly speaking an atheist work (though it is possible that Hume was an atheist trying to fly under the radar, I don't know) it is a work of profound skepticism concerning our ability to deduce anything about God from nature, including his existence. It was written by a genius, and it shows.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Kairyu, posted 04-09-2012 5:46 PM Kairyu has not replied

  
Kairyu
Member (Idle past 204 days)
Posts: 162
From: netherlands
Joined: 06-23-2010


(1)
Message 12 of 27 (658862)
04-10-2012 1:03 PM


I should comment on what I'm reading now: I'm once again reading a book of famous Dutch neuroscientist Dick Swaab, ''we are our brain''. It mostly deals about the workings of the brain to the general public, but especially toward the end he focuses his view that there is only a brain, and no soul or religion. As a result, most of the topics I had something to say in what using information from that book. It should be translated into English in 2013, if my information is correct.
I'm also working on ''Evolution and human behaviour'' by John Cartwright. It's a complex book mostly directed to students of this subject, but it's also intended for the general public who wish to read a scientific book on the subject. So far it's already improving my knowledge of evolution.
Most people think they grasp evolution once their hear the basics, but..
It's like vaguely knowing the rules of chess and sometimes play a round with some aid, instead of actually mastering the game and all it's strategies in-depth. So, books like this one are invaluable.
Edited by Kairyu, : fixed sentence.

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-10-2012 2:35 PM Kairyu has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 13 of 27 (658868)
04-10-2012 1:40 PM


Dawkins was actually quite famous before his Delusions after he published what I still think is one of the most influencial and readable books on evolution - The Selfish Gene. I'm sure I've seen it free somewhere on line too. (Possibly illegally.)

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Modulous, posted 04-10-2012 2:02 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(1)
Message 14 of 27 (658869)
04-10-2012 2:02 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Tangle
04-10-2012 1:40 PM


Dawkins was actually quite famous before his Delusions after he published what I still think is one of the most influencial and readable books on evolution - The Selfish Gene. I'm sure I've seen it free somewhere on line too. (Possibly illegally.)
Indeed, the God Delusion was published thirty years after the Selfish Gene. In fact, I would recommend if you're going to get it, you consider the 30th Anniversary edition. Lots of information in biology has been acquired since 1976 and the new edition takes more modern research into consideration. I think mostly by footnotes (I read it when it came out in 2006 so I'm a bit sketchy on that).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Tangle, posted 04-10-2012 1:40 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 15 of 27 (658870)
04-10-2012 2:22 PM


And, of course, Origin of Species is also a free download. (Although, I'm ashamed to say I've never read it.......)

Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024