Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   First Contact and Its Implications for Religion
Organicmachination
Member (Idle past 5710 days)
Posts: 105
From: Pullman, WA, USA
Joined: 12-30-2007


Message 1 of 15 (472289)
06-21-2008 4:48 PM


Hello all,
I know I haven't been active on this site for quite a while, but I've been intensely busy with getting ready for college apps and the such, so much so that I haven't had a chance to do much of anything enjoyable on the computer until now.
Anyway, on to the topic of this thread. Suppose that in the very near future, humankind makes contact with an extraterrestrial species, either by direct meeting or by the discovery of a message from the stars by SETI and the like. Suppose that, much in the same way that the message in Sagan's Contact is realized, mankind realizes that this message is not of natural origins, and is, instead, from a species beyond our Earth. What implications would this discovery have for religion on Earth? How would it be received by religious fanatics and fundamentalists?
I believe that this is a very interesting question indeed, and one that requires some discussion.
Thanks

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Straggler, posted 06-21-2008 5:24 PM Organicmachination has replied
 Message 5 by BeagleBob, posted 06-21-2008 8:00 PM Organicmachination has not replied
 Message 6 by Taz, posted 06-21-2008 8:20 PM Organicmachination has replied
 Message 9 by Deftil, posted 06-22-2008 1:35 PM Organicmachination has not replied
 Message 10 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 06-22-2008 5:38 PM Organicmachination has not replied

  
AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 2 of 15 (472297)
06-21-2008 5:14 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 3 of 15 (472304)
06-21-2008 5:24 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Organicmachination
06-21-2008 4:48 PM


Calling Theists
Good question!
We need some theists to provide their thoughts on the matter.
At the very least I would suggest that an advanced alien species would cast serious doubt on the idea that we are in any way special (made in God's image etc. etc.)
I would be intrigued to know if the aliens had something resembling religion in their culture aat all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Organicmachination, posted 06-21-2008 4:48 PM Organicmachination has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Organicmachination, posted 06-21-2008 5:33 PM Straggler has not replied

  
Organicmachination
Member (Idle past 5710 days)
Posts: 105
From: Pullman, WA, USA
Joined: 12-30-2007


Message 4 of 15 (472307)
06-21-2008 5:33 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Straggler
06-21-2008 5:24 PM


Re: Calling Theists
Indeed.
I wonder how the credibility of the Bible could be rationally defended against all logical arguments if such a discovery were made.
Come one, come all. This should be exciting.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Straggler, posted 06-21-2008 5:24 PM Straggler has not replied

  
BeagleBob
Member (Idle past 5677 days)
Posts: 81
Joined: 11-21-2007


Message 5 of 15 (472339)
06-21-2008 8:00 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Organicmachination
06-21-2008 4:48 PM


Alien species?
Convert them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Organicmachination, posted 06-21-2008 4:48 PM Organicmachination has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 6 of 15 (472343)
06-21-2008 8:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Organicmachination
06-21-2008 4:48 PM


God made Adam and Eve, not Elliott and E.T.

I'm trying to see things your way, but I can't put my head that far up my ass.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Organicmachination, posted 06-21-2008 4:48 PM Organicmachination has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Organicmachination, posted 06-21-2008 8:21 PM Taz has replied

  
Organicmachination
Member (Idle past 5710 days)
Posts: 105
From: Pullman, WA, USA
Joined: 12-30-2007


Message 7 of 15 (472344)
06-21-2008 8:21 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Taz
06-21-2008 8:20 PM


Say what?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Taz, posted 06-21-2008 8:20 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Taz, posted 06-21-2008 11:25 PM Organicmachination has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 8 of 15 (472372)
06-21-2008 11:25 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Organicmachination
06-21-2008 8:21 PM


Let me say it more slowly. The Bible is the living word of God. It says nothing about E.T. Therefore, E.T. does not exist.
Now, suppose that we do indeed one day make contact with an alien civilization. It will be nothing more than an illusion. If the bible mentions nothing about E.T., then God has no plan for E.T., meaning we must do everything we can to rid of the illusion.

I'm trying to see things your way, but I can't put my head that far up my ass.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Organicmachination, posted 06-21-2008 8:21 PM Organicmachination has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Brian, posted 06-23-2008 1:54 AM Taz has replied

  
Deftil
Member (Idle past 4456 days)
Posts: 128
From: Virginia, USA
Joined: 04-19-2008


Message 9 of 15 (472447)
06-22-2008 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Organicmachination
06-21-2008 4:48 PM


My guess is that at first it would cause a lot of fuss, but it could eventually die down the way it did with Copernican heliocentrism.
Although much like evolution some might argue that it doesn't really exist, and some would argue that the idea can be seen not as contradictory to but compatible with their beliefs. And I imagine there would be some whom it would make question and ultimately give up their religious beliefs.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Organicmachination, posted 06-21-2008 4:48 PM Organicmachination has not replied

  
AnswersInGenitals
Member (Idle past 151 days)
Posts: 673
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 10 of 15 (472480)
06-22-2008 5:38 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Organicmachination
06-21-2008 4:48 PM


Why should this be different?
We have a very good historical model for exactly how religious institutions and believers would react. When Columbus discovered E. E.s (Extra-Europeans), Christian Europe reacted in three mutually complimentary ways:
1) figure out how to proselytize them
2) figure out how to slaughter them
3) figure out how to make a buck off them.
All subsequent space flights would be required to carry a coterie of missionaries.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Organicmachination, posted 06-21-2008 4:48 PM Organicmachination has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Taz, posted 06-23-2008 2:01 AM AnswersInGenitals has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 11 of 15 (472532)
06-23-2008 1:54 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Taz
06-21-2008 11:25 PM


The Bible is the living word of God. It says nothing about E.T. Therefore, E.T. does not exist.
It also says nothing about God creating more people that could build the pyramids after the Flood, yet you are quite happy to posit the possibility of this since it 'solves' an immediate problem.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Taz, posted 06-21-2008 11:25 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Taz, posted 06-23-2008 2:05 AM Brian has replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 12 of 15 (472534)
06-23-2008 2:01 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by AnswersInGenitals
06-22-2008 5:38 PM


Re: Why should this be different?
This is a great point. If there is contact between two civilizations, I have no doubt that either we will proselytize, slaughter, and exploit them or they will proselytize, slaughter, and exploit us.
In the past, some people have stated that because the universe is such a vast place and that compared the number of people that can live the amount of resources is so much more vast that there'd be no need for war at all. They argued that first contact would probably be a start of a very peaceful coexistence between humans and aliens.
I, however, disagree with this notion. If we look at the entire span of recorded human history, seldom do we see any war started because of scarcity of resources. I'd say that most wars were fought over power, wealth, and honor. I see no reason why encounter with an alien civilization would be any different than this.
Directly relating this to our topic, most religions in the world teach that humanity is special in regard to creation. This is why most religions have taught at some point in the past of the center-ness of our world in regard to the universe. In fact, creos still argue today that the reason we observe a universal recession of galaxies every direction we look is because the Earth is indeed in the center of the Universe.
Contact with an alien civilization will blow many of these long held beliefs out of the water. And I'm pretty darn sure the aliens would have some similar philosophy (aka bullshit ideas) regarding their special place in the cosmos. Such a clash of ideologies and a sense of specialness would inevitably result in at least a culture war if not an open war.

I'm trying to see things your way, but I can't put my head that far up my ass.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 06-22-2008 5:38 PM AnswersInGenitals has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Organicmachination, posted 06-23-2008 10:43 PM Taz has not replied

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3292 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 13 of 15 (472535)
06-23-2008 2:05 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by Brian
06-23-2008 1:54 AM


Haha, do I sense a tu quoque somewhere in there?

I'm trying to see things your way, but I can't put my head that far up my ass.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Brian, posted 06-23-2008 1:54 AM Brian has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Brian, posted 06-23-2008 3:41 AM Taz has not replied

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 4959 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 14 of 15 (472539)
06-23-2008 3:41 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Taz
06-23-2008 2:05 AM


do I sense a tu quoque somewhere in there?
Not at all.
And, of course, my approach to the Bible has no effect on the veracity of your stance.
I much prefer to approach the Bible in the contexts that it was written, and I hope your 'literal bible' topic gets promoted soon.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Taz, posted 06-23-2008 2:05 AM Taz has not replied

  
Organicmachination
Member (Idle past 5710 days)
Posts: 105
From: Pullman, WA, USA
Joined: 12-30-2007


Message 15 of 15 (472670)
06-23-2008 10:43 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Taz
06-23-2008 2:01 AM


Re: Why should this be different?
But I think we must realize that, yes, through the eyes of human history, encounters with other civilizations have often spurred violence, but also that first contact would not be directly comparable to contact with earthly civilizations. During no time in history have humans thought of another earthbound civilization as totally alien, or recognized them as not of this world. The exception to this is, of course, the reaction of the Maya to the spanish conquistadors. But in this case, the Mayans were in awe of and worshiped the Spaniards, mainly because they believed them to be Gods.
There would be a sense of humility, of ones' place in the world, and true awe in the air if two civilizations, both recognizing each other as completely alien and apart from their own worldly civilizations, were to be made aware of each other.
I think it might be more likely that both would be like Mayans in awe of the Spaniards, not the other way around.
Unless of course, the aliens are a universal scourge hell bent on the eradication of all life forms.
I hope this makes sense.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Taz, posted 06-23-2008 2:01 AM Taz has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024