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Author Topic:   Video: Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 1 of 20 (650869)
02-03-2012 12:11 PM


Jefferson Bethke posted this video on YouTube a few weeks ago:
It received a great deal of attention, went viral, caused an uproar, and Bethke reversed his position. Today it became the topic of a NYT editorial: How to Fight The Man. Editorialist David Brooks states at one point:
David Brooks writes:
Bethke’s passionate polemic and subsequent retreat are symptomatic of a lot of the protest cries we hear these days. This seems to be a moment when many people in religion, economics and politics are disgusted by current institutions, but then they are vague about what sorts of institutions should replace them.
Brooks ignores the key question: why must religion be institutionalized?
Seems to me like Bethke caved under all the attention. I hope when the attention fades he realizes he's been hornswoggled by words and not deeds.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Phat, posted 02-03-2012 12:21 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 4 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-03-2012 1:23 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied
 Message 14 by Chuck77, posted 02-11-2012 7:10 AM Percy has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 2 of 20 (650873)
02-03-2012 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
02-03-2012 12:11 PM


Rebel Without A Cause
Bethke evidently respects fellow "believers" enough that he is trying to not offend them. I personally saw this video several weeks ago and was initially impressed with Bethkes rap, but also see no problem with him trying to make peace with the elders of his faith.
I see my belief in a personal relationship with Jesus as a statement that I want to have a lifelong dialogue with God.
Some may laugh at this apparent absurdity, but they are also the ones who see random chance as having power to influence anything, IMHO.
Kudos to Jefferson for his bold and artsy proclamation of faith and new-found awareness of what fame brings you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Percy, posted 02-03-2012 12:11 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 3 of 20 (650875)
02-03-2012 12:27 PM


I hate fast food but I love McDonalds.

Mythology is what we call someone else’s religion. Joseph Campbell

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 20 (650904)
02-03-2012 1:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
02-03-2012 12:11 PM


Bethke reversed his position
How so?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Percy, posted 02-03-2012 12:11 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 5 of 20 (651029)
02-04-2012 3:10 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by New Cat's Eye
02-03-2012 1:23 PM


Catholic Scientist writes:
Bethke reversed his position
How so?
Indeed. Even though he says he hates religion, that's not the impression I get from the video. Hell, at one point he even mentions (at around 2:20):
quote:
I love the Church, I love the Bible and, yes, I believe in sin
Really? Well, what's so different about your beliefs and religion then?
But the real kicker comes near the end (at around 3:10):
quote:
Christianty is god searching for man
So, let me get this straight... "Christianity" is not a religion?
And, most apallingly of all (at around 3:20):
quote:
Because he took the crown of thorns and the blood dripped down his face
He took what we all deserve, I guess that's why you call it grace
He took what we all deserve? He took what we all deserve? Really? We all deserve to be tortured and brutally beaten? Wow, your a font of compassion, aren't you?
He talks the talk, but he doesn't walk the walk. There is no reversal of position, his position was pro religion the entire time.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Percy, posted 02-04-2012 7:27 AM Huntard has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 6 of 20 (651044)
02-04-2012 7:27 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Huntard
02-04-2012 3:10 AM


Huntard writes:
He talks the talk, but he doesn't walk the walk. There is no reversal of position, his position was pro religion the entire time.
Where the title says he hates religion he means religion as represented by the established religious institutions. The reversal of position concerned religious institutions, not personal religious beliefs.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Huntard, posted 02-04-2012 3:10 AM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Huntard, posted 02-04-2012 7:30 AM Percy has replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 7 of 20 (651045)
02-04-2012 7:30 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Percy
02-04-2012 7:27 AM


Percy writes:
Where the title says he hates religion he means religion as represented by the established religious institutions. The reversal of position concerned religious institutions, not personal religious beliefs.
Then he should be more clear, and attack the institutions. Now he is attacking "religion" which is exactly what he wants there to be. And as far as "institutions" are concerned, he literally admits to loving the church. So, he is against an institution he loves?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Percy, posted 02-04-2012 7:27 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Percy, posted 02-04-2012 8:26 AM Huntard has not replied
 Message 9 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-04-2012 9:47 AM Huntard has not replied
 Message 10 by Panda, posted 02-04-2012 1:29 PM Huntard has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 8 of 20 (651052)
02-04-2012 8:26 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Huntard
02-04-2012 7:30 AM


I only listened to the video once, but it did seem like his word choices weren't always the best. My impression was that he was expressing a love of the religion of Jesus and a hate of what it had become in the hands of its largest institutions.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 9 of 20 (651066)
02-04-2012 9:47 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Huntard
02-04-2012 7:30 AM


Then he should be more clear, and attack the institutions. Now he is attacking "religion" which is exactly what he wants there to be. And as far as "institutions" are concerned, he literally admits to loving the church. So, he is against an institution he loves?
I think that's a petty quibble considering it's a spoken word. He very clearly was elucidating the institution of religion, and how it's usurped the message of Jesus. I get what the kid is trying to say, and I think many others do too, which is why it is resonating.
Because his message is so popular, he's been attacked by both sides. I've seen atheistic videos that make the same semantical argument about what religion is, therefore he's illogical. Petty.
Likewise, I just found this gem where even the papacy is chiming in and doing spin-off videos to combat it... no doubt protecting their bankroll. Also petty.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru_tC4fv6FE&feature=related
Not sure why this isn't embedding... You guys change the dbcode to embed videos?
Anyway, watch the counter video
Edited by Admin, : Fix utube dBCode.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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Panda
Member (Idle past 3712 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 10 of 20 (651115)
02-04-2012 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Huntard
02-04-2012 7:30 AM


Artistic licence?
Huntard writes:
Then he should be more clear
But it's a poem!
We don't demand that Poe clarifies the motives of the raven, do we?

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

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Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Huntard, posted 02-04-2012 1:38 PM Panda has seen this message but not replied
 Message 12 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-04-2012 3:14 PM Panda has replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 11 of 20 (651117)
02-04-2012 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Panda
02-04-2012 1:29 PM


Re: Artistic licence?
Panda writes:
But it's a poem!
We don't demand that Poe clarifies the motives of the raven, do we?
I certainly would. If one has the desire to advocate a certain view, one should be plain as day about it. Not a person in the world did ever get thither he longed to be by using archaic vernacular in a most allegoric sense.
Just a bunch of toffs really...

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 12 of 20 (651121)
02-04-2012 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Panda
02-04-2012 1:29 PM


Re: Artistic licence?
We don't demand that Poe clarifies the motives of the raven, do we?
Then I cried in desperation: "What the heck's your motivation,
and what's the big attraction of the lintel of my door?
Lest my temper should erupt, you tell me what the fuck you're up to
What's the meaning of this visit, what the dickens is it for -
What this corvine visitation can conceivably be for?"
Quoth the raven, "Nevermore".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Panda, posted 02-04-2012 1:29 PM Panda has replied

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Panda
Member (Idle past 3712 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 13 of 20 (651129)
02-04-2012 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Dr Adequate
02-04-2012 3:14 PM


Re: Artistic licence?
Quoth the raven, "Arabel made me do it!"

If I were you
And I wish that I were you
All the things I'd do
To make myself turn blue

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-04-2012 3:14 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Chuck77
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 20 (651963)
02-11-2012 7:10 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
02-03-2012 12:11 PM


Percy writes:
Seems to me like Bethke caved under all the attention.
I've seen a few video by this person. I didn't notice where he backtracked in his statements or beliefs. Do you have a video or something showing this?
And yes, Christianity is not religion. It is relationship. How many times do you or anyone need to hear this?
We have to apperantly accept that the TOE and abiogenesis are funamantaly different. Well so are religion and christianity. This person is arguing against the type of beliefs the pharisees had when they Crucified Jesus. That was religion and Jesus was preaching relationship and the religious crucified Him for it. There is a difference.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Percy, posted 02-03-2012 12:11 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by saab93f, posted 02-11-2012 7:59 AM Chuck77 has not replied
 Message 16 by Percy, posted 02-11-2012 8:30 AM Chuck77 has not replied
 Message 17 by Panda, posted 02-11-2012 10:28 AM Chuck77 has not replied

  
saab93f
Member (Idle past 1394 days)
Posts: 265
From: Finland
Joined: 12-17-2009


Message 15 of 20 (651968)
02-11-2012 7:59 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Chuck77
02-11-2012 7:10 AM


Chuck, how many times do YOU have to be told that your religion is just as wrong for a Muslim as theirs is to you. To an unbeliever not one is better or worse - they are all menaningless.
Just because you have been subjected to christianity from an early age or/and then later on to become a "born-again" is real to you but for me it bears no meaning. I have nothing against you believing or having a relationship to whatever but for you to force others to respect that is wrong. I do not respect any religion - there is absolutely nothing inherently worth respecting in any of them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Chuck77, posted 02-11-2012 7:10 AM Chuck77 has not replied

  
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