Ushering In An Age of Reason....Or Not.....?

It seems to be the expectation (or at least hope) of the new atheists that an age of reason be ushered into existence. An age in which religious and other superstitious beliefs are sidelined into irrelevance by a near universal acceptance that rationality, reason and evidence based inquiry hold the key to human advancement and progress.But things are not going to plan. Human society is facing an epidemic of superstition that impoverishes our culture. Religious fundamentalism is increasing around the world and even in those societies where organised religion is fading new-age-style gurus and paranormal beliefs are highly prevalent. Beliefs (astrology, crystal healing, personal auras, psychic perception, alien abduction etc. etc.) which promote solace in subjective experience at the expense of objective evidence and which allow people to run away from reality.(All phrases from Dawkins)So is the notion of an Age of reason a utopian dream (or nightmare - depending on your perspective) destined to failure because of man’s innate proclivity, need even, to believe in unfalsifiable nonsense of one sort or another? Or is the current situation a temporary blip in mankind's inevitable progress down the road of rationality and reason?GK Chesterton said: "When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing -- they believe in anything." — Was he right? And if he was what are the implications for New Atheism and the hoped for Age of Reason?Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

Thread copied here from the Ushering In An Age of Reason....Or Not.....? thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.

I suppose our capacity for self-delusion is boundless.

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John Steinbeck (Travels with Charley: In Search of America)

Religion and the belief in an afterlife seems immune from "rationality, reason and evidence based inquiry."Shamans (of all kinds) are selling immortality -- and who doesn't want that! -- but they are doing so with no evidence, just vast promises of future benefits that would make used car salesmen and politicians choke.So no, I see no age of reason on the horizon.

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Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

It is always darkest before the dawnI think we are on our first steps on the path to an age of reason, just a few decades ago atheist was synonymous with communist a bad thing no religion no morals. Now its different than x to Muslim fanatics being a religious fanatic is suddenly a bad thing a wrong and misguided person. We could be entering an era of mild superstition and religion where children are no longer so brutally indoctrinated and intellectually raped as they where in the past. And with a bit of luck reason will have an easier road to their children's minds and blind faith will become a thing of the past.Education is still the best cure for religion and education is on the rise children learn more and more with each generation and that might help them question superstitious notions like 7 day creation .....So i do have high hopes for the future.There are of course some things that do not point to a bright future of reason.Creationist cults forcing their religius dogma in to schools
Muslim schools excluding evolution and anything that goes against the quoran from their schools .....So it will still be an uphill battle but i think we can say we can finally sea the peak of the mountain.

I think it is a more complex question than that.On one hand we have the fact that with scientific progress there has indisputably been a move away from the ancient beliefs of old and a move towards secularism of sorts in most of the best educated societies.On the other hand is the fact that even as people embrace science and technology in their daily lives the notion that "there must be something more" on a personal level pertaining to some sort of scientifically unreachable aspect of reality remains incredibly persistent.So - I think despite the current rise of fundamentalism in some parts of the world that this is a "blip" of sorts and that traditional religious beliefs are untenable in the long long term.However the natural inclination of humans to endow themselves a special place in reality and to embrace personally appealing unevidenced nonsense through self-justifying interpretations of evidence is just too innate for a true "age of reason to emerge".

So long as there are those who regard 'rationality, reason and evidence based inquiry' as uniquely atheistic phenomena, an age of reason can never be 'ushered into existence'.Atheism and reason have nothing to do with one another.Jon

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Love your enemies!

As long as there is suffering, poverty, inequality, and tyranny there will be religion/superstition. For some, reality just isn't acceptable. They need hope for a better place, better than the reality that they live in.I remember my own "conversion" to atheism. At first, I was very frightened by the idea that death was it, the end, the big nap. The idea that no one was looking out for me was also uncomfortable. After awhile, those ideas were actually quite exciting. Perhaps you enjoy the roller coaster a bit more if you know that you will never get another ride?

You must surely acknowledge that it is the New Atheists that most effectively advocate the ideal of an "Age of Reason" - No?The idea that any theists are advocating such a thing seems a bit like turkeys voting for Christmas.

When we look at the Age of Enlightenment we do not see a wholesale abandonment of the old superstitions by the populations of the world. What we see is progress in wrenching governments, if not all of society, away from the cluches of religious zeal and toward the concepts of scular governance. It did not involve all governments everywhere and, to this day, there are notable and wide spread throw-backs. However, we recognize that during that period in world history there was a major shift in philosophy on a large scale in many governments.The GNU Atheist movement is taking the next step in extending this secularist movement deeper into society. Since Abington v Schempp, Murray v Curlett (1963) the movement of secular rationality and reason into the greater society, via the secular restrictions on government, in the USA has progressed far and wide. While there has appreared to be a rise in religious fundamentalism in the USA I submit this is an illusion made by technology and instant mass media. The fundamentalists have always been there just now more openly seen. The greater change is that secular humanism and atheism are not just also more open but are now tolerated, accepted and even encouraged in some segments of our society. The point is emphasised by the fact that those openly acknowledging themselves as "Non-religious/secular, atheist, humanist" have grown considerably over the later part of the 20th century. SourceExtending this to the world as a whole we will not see nor should we expect to see a wholesale abandonment of the old superstitions in our societies. While the movement toward secular rationality and reason in the greater world society may never become a 100% success the movement is now underway and making significant progress today.I submit that the new Age of Reason has already begun. We are living in the midsts of it now.Future historians will look to this period and our "four horsemen" as we look to the mid 1600's with Spinoza, Locke and Newton, as the new Age of Reason in full swing.The first one lasted 150 years and fundamentally altered human existance even if it do not reach everyone everywhere. I see no reason to not expect the same from this one.Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.

Of course; you defined your 'Age of Reason' as being one of the tenets of New Atheism.My point is that actual reasonable people do not advocate for your oppressive AoR; and that so long as there are folk out there like your New Atheists, there can never be a true age of reason.What your New Atheists call 'reason' is just '... a belief that religion should not simply be tolerated but should be countered, criticized and exposed by rational argument wherever its influence arises' (New Atheists).This isn't reason; it's just stupidity. So long as folk think such crap like this is reasonable there can never be an age of reasonno matter how much they wanna label it as such. I am strongly in favor of reason. It's the rehashed prejudices that your New Atheists have wrapped and stamped as 'Reason' that concern me.Jon

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Love your enemies!

Did I.....? Would you like to describe what you mean by an "Age of Reason" and explain how religious/supernatural/paranormal beliefs are compatible with that then? Can you explain why you think it is stupid to counter criticize and expose religion to rational argument? So an age of reason is compatible with not-countering, not-criticizing and not exposing religion to rational argument.....? But only as long as it doesn't get in the way of your unreasonable beliefs? So how do you define "reason"....? Does religious belief qualify as "reasoned" as far as you are concerned?

Yes - Good post.

Yes.

quote:

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Straggler in Message 1:

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An age in which religious and other superstitious beliefs are sidelined into irrelevance by a near universal acceptance that rationality, reason and evidence based inquiry hold the key to human advancement and progress.

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quote:

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Wikipedia on New Atheism:

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According to CNN, "What the New Atheists share is a belief that religion should not simply be tolerated but should be countered, criticized and exposed by rational argument wherever its influence arises."

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I don't remember saying that. I don't remember saying that. No thanks, Straggler. We've been down that road before; my time is more valuable than that.JonEdited by Jon, : quotes

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Love your enemies!

Well if you cannot explain how an "Age of Reason" is compatible with superstitious/religious beliefs I have no idea why you bothered to post any of your prior entries in this thread.Oh well.....

We all have our beliefs, don't we? Personally, my faith is important to me. I suppose, were I honest, that I could concede that rationality, reason, and evidence are crucial to human advancement and progress. Some would argue, however, that humans are emotional as well as logical and that faith plays an important role for some. Perhaps we should ask ourselves some key questions to get a handle on this. Yes, and people buy lottery tickets also. Why should a religion require any evidence? Some would argue that religion need not be eradicated...just better understood. Is this possible?