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Author Topic:   Suicide and religion
Dirk
Member (Idle past 4023 days)
Posts: 84
Joined: 08-20-2010


Message 1 of 20 (588003)
10-21-2010 9:32 PM


In many religions, those who behave go to heaven (or some other nice place or state of being) while those who misbehave go to hell (or have to undergo some other form of torture or punishment). Now, if heaven really is an eternal place of joy, it makes sense that everyone would try to go there as soon as possible by committing suicide, because compared to the promises of heaven, earth is, well, rather bleak. This would leave most churches completely empty and church leaders without any followers and therefore income. Could this be the reason why many religions also ban/punish suicide? Do religions without a heaven/hell also ban suicide?
Thoughts, anyone? Alternative explanations?
Topic: maybe Comparative religions? (I am new to this, so if a mod has a better suggestion, go ahead)
Edited by Dirk, : added topic
Edited by Dirk, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by AZPaul3, posted 10-21-2010 11:19 PM Dirk has not replied
 Message 4 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-21-2010 11:34 PM Dirk has not replied
 Message 5 by Panda, posted 10-22-2010 6:30 AM Dirk has replied
 Message 8 by Panda, posted 10-22-2010 10:30 AM Dirk has replied

  
Adminnemooseus
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Message 2 of 20 (588011)
10-21-2010 10:46 PM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the Suicide and religion thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 3 of 20 (588013)
10-21-2010 11:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dirk
10-21-2010 9:32 PM


Hindu
The Hindi have both a heaven and a hell but these are way stations for the soul before reincarnation. Suicide disrupts the process of completing the karma which must be restarted from the beginning. A Hindi suicide does not go to hell right away but must remain in the earthly consciousness until his time of "life" has fully passed. He then goes into hell to suffer until reincarnated back to his previous karma which must be fully completed (maybe on less agreeable terms) before he can continue his path to immortality.
So Hinduism also disapproves of suicide but without the baser motivation you seem to ascribe to christians.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 4 of 20 (588014)
10-21-2010 11:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dirk
10-21-2010 9:32 PM


In the Jain religion suicide by self-starvation is considered meritorious.
But it' still optional, so there are still Jains. Few people are going to kill themselves just to earn Brownie points.

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Panda
Member (Idle past 3712 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 5 of 20 (588082)
10-22-2010 6:30 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dirk
10-21-2010 9:32 PM


Would it also be a worthy sacrifice to kill all young innocents before they sin (but after baptism, etc.)?
Sure, you'll go to hell for murder, but think of all the people you saved...

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Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by olivortex, posted 10-22-2010 9:15 AM Panda has replied
 Message 9 by Dirk, posted 10-22-2010 11:28 AM Panda has seen this message but not replied

  
olivortex
Member (Idle past 4778 days)
Posts: 70
From: versailles, france
Joined: 01-28-2009


Message 6 of 20 (588101)
10-22-2010 9:15 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Panda
10-22-2010 6:30 AM


mass savior?
The idea is not tempting but could be valid. That would make a mass murderer a soul savior! But it also suggests that everyone is going to commit at least one sin at a given time. I don't really think it is valid, since one can live a whole life through without doing one bad or forbidden thing. I don't know for you but I'm an "angel"!
Oh no, wait, there was this spider I tortured to death.

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Panda
Member (Idle past 3712 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 7 of 20 (588108)
10-22-2010 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by olivortex
10-22-2010 9:15 AM


Re: mass savior?
olivortex writes:
I don't really think it is valid, since one can live a whole life through without doing one bad or forbidden thing. I don't know for you but I'm an "angel"!
Granted, it is a 'numbers game', but the less time you are alive: the lower the chances are of you committing a sin.

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Panda
Member (Idle past 3712 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 8 of 20 (588115)
10-22-2010 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dirk
10-21-2010 9:32 PM


Is it possible to overdose on paracetamol and then be forgiven during the several days it takes to die?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Dirk, posted 10-21-2010 9:32 PM Dirk has replied

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Dirk
Member (Idle past 4023 days)
Posts: 84
Joined: 08-20-2010


Message 9 of 20 (588129)
10-22-2010 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Panda
10-22-2010 6:30 AM


quote:
Sure, you'll go to hell for murder, but think of all the people you saved...
  —"Panda"
So it's a sacrifice for the greater good! Shouldn't be too hard to get forgiveness for that...

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 10 of 20 (588140)
10-22-2010 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Panda
10-22-2010 10:10 AM


Re: mass savior?
the less time you are alive: the lower the chances are of you committing a sin.
Oh you know-nothing Atheists.
You do not have to physically go out and purposely or accidentally commit a sin. You have already committed the greatest sin of having been born! That's the whole point. You sinned by getting born so now you have to be saved.
BTW, I like the idea of killing christian babies before they can grow up to be creationists. Problem is so many of them are apt to grow up to be atheists. Maybe we better not do that.

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frako
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 11 of 20 (588353)
10-24-2010 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by AZPaul3
10-22-2010 1:03 PM


Re: mass savior?
You do not have to physically go out and purposely or accidentally commit a sin. You have already committed the greatest sin of having been born! That's the whole point. You sinned by getting born so now you have to be saved.
You can take your god (real or more probably not) and shove him where the sun dont' shine if he thinks it is my fault or sin that i got borne.
the universe must be billions of years old the senility of your god proves it.
1. go out in to the world and multiply - go out and have as many babyies as possible
2. all babies are sinners for being borne
wtf

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 Message 10 by AZPaul3, posted 10-22-2010 1:03 PM AZPaul3 has replied

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 12 of 20 (588355)
10-24-2010 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by frako
10-24-2010 11:06 AM


Re: mass savior?
That is the christian concept of "Original Sin."
Sick, isn't it.

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Dirk
Member (Idle past 4023 days)
Posts: 84
Joined: 08-20-2010


Message 13 of 20 (588387)
10-24-2010 7:23 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Panda
10-22-2010 10:30 AM


Overdose
Is it possible to overdose on paracetamol and then be forgiven during the several days it takes to die?
Sounds doable. But then again, I'm not a Christian so maybe they've got a rule against this loophole as well. Otherwise I would expect to see massive overdoses among Christians, and we don't see that, I think. Or maybe, just maybe, even Christians themselves are not so sure that there is an afterlife and live this life to the fullest just to be on the safe side in case the promise of eternal life turns out to be false...

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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 14 of 20 (588388)
10-24-2010 10:40 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Dirk
10-24-2010 7:23 PM


Re: Overdose
Reminds me of a war story from Nam told by an atheist I knew in response to that creaking old canard about the paucity of atheists in foxholes. His base had its share of evangelical Christians preaching to and trying to convert the others. One night, they came under a prolonged mortar attack. Since they were in the camp club when the attack starter, he and an atheist friend got a bottle of whiskey and settled in under a table to wait out the attack, calmly accepting their impending deaths. You know who was really freaked out and panicking about the possibility of being killed? The evangelical Christians.

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frako
Member (Idle past 305 days)
Posts: 2932
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 15 of 20 (592745)
11-21-2010 6:31 PM


I have a question a brain teaser if you will.
Is having an autoimmune disease and you die from this disease suecide or not.
Autoimmune diseases are those when the body attacks its self and sometimes kills it self. The same way as cutting your wrist kills you without medical attention. Cutting your wrist is suicide because you did it to yourself, is death by an autoimmune reaction also suicide because you do it to yourself?

Replies to this message:
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