Passover problems in the Gospels

In the synpotics, it seems to suggest that Jesus ate the Passover meal, while in John, he could not. Although inferred in the synpotics, an argument can be made that he never did. But there lies another problem. Before I can get to that issue, I need to clarify that Jesus could not have eaten the Passover meal.JOHN 13 1It was just before the Passover Feast. Jesus knew that the time had come for him to leave this world and go to the Father. Having loved his own who were in the world, he now showed them the full extent of his love.Its now before the Passover feast...JOHN 13:21 When Jesus had said these things, He was troubled in spirit, and testified and said, "Most assuredly, I say to you, one of you will betray Me. 26 . . . It is he to whom I shall give a piece of bread when I have dipped it." And having dipped the bread, He gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon. 27 Now after the piece of bread, Satan entered him. Then Jesus said to him, "What you do, do quickly." 28 But no one at the table knew for what reason He said this to him. 29 For some thought, because Judas had the money box, that Jesus had said to him, "Buy those things we need for the Feast," or that he should give something to the poor. 30 Having received the piece of bread, he then went out immediately. And it was night. (NKJV)This could not be the Passover meal, since instructions are given to Judas to buy items for the Passover, which is the feast.JOHN 18:28 Then they led Jesus from Caiaphas to the Praetorium, and it was early morning. But they themselves did not go into the Praetorium, lest they should be defiled, but that they might eat the Passover.This verse states those leading Jesus, in the morning were to still eat the Passover, which was an evening meal.The issue I am addressing tends to get very convoluted, so I want to make sure everyone is one the same page.Is anyone in disgreement that Jesus could not have eaten the Passover meal in John? That Jesus was killed on the Passover?Thanks.Edited by hERICtic, : No reason given.Edited by hERICtic, : No reason given.

Thread copied here from the Passover problems in the Gospels thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.

Linky

So I put all that work in. Locate the scriptures. Edit it three times due to some errors.And you sum it up with a video in two seconds. Damn.

At your service!

In my oppinion, no, Jesus could not have eaten the Passover according to John.This of course raises difficulties when the Synoptics claim he did eat the Passover.

Christians falls back upon the synoptics and claim Jesus didnt eat the Passover meal either. Of course, its heavily inferred. But arguing that point is fruitless bc they fall back on, "Does it actually say its a Passover meal?" and you have no choice but to say, "No." The problem though, is that its two different days. This is not disputable.In John, Jesus is upon the cross ON Passover. Therefore, his last evening meal could only be the day before, Passover Eve.In the synoptics, Jesus eats his last meal on Passover and is killed the next day. Regardless if he ate the meal or called it something else (as apologists like to say), its crystal clear: Jesus ate his last meal ON Passover, killed the next day.So basically, I'm debating you, someone who agrees with me. Im waiting for you to throw up another video, but half as long, but twice as informative.

You have a couple of innaccuracies.The way passover works is that sundown the day before what WE would call passover was the start of passover and would continue to the next day ending with sundown of the next evening so... Is not true. Jesus is crucified on passover eve in John and it even makes it very explicit. The reason that Jesus gets speared is that so he could die and be taken down before passover because it would have been a massive sin to deal with executions or their cleanup on passover. This also jives with the theology of John which aims to make Jesus into the sacraficial lamb which was killed on passover eve.Which makes the synoptics even more amazing! This is wrong. That next day is STILL PASSOVER! OMG these Gospels have Hebrews dragging Jesus to court, having him crucified, on one of their most holy of days!It is part of the argument why some Christians think that the last supper was not passover becuase that would been totally not kosher (pun intended) to have the trial and execution then. But it takes a pretty squinty eye to read the synoptics and not notice that Jesus and the disciples are in Jerusalem talking about the Passover ON the eve (daytime) of passover.

---

If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be. --Thomas Jefferson

Matthew, Mark and Luke say that the last supper happened ON PASSOVER (i.e. after sundown, with the meal being passover) but John says that the last supper happened BEFORE PASSOVER (i.e. the meal wasn't passover, it was the start of/sundown of the day previous).Got that? There's a problem there, because John says (quite clearly) that the last supper happens BEFORE passover, so he was crucified before it - but the others have it that Jesus was crucified AFTER passover (i.e. in the daytime after the passover meal they'd held the previous night).Edited by greyseal, : No reason given.

I agree.

quote:

---

In John, Jesus is upon the cross ON Passover.

---

Nope. Its a sin to be on the cross on the Sabbath.John 19: 31Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath. Because the Jews did not want the bodies left on the crosses during the Sabbath, they asked Pilate to have the legs broken and the bodies taken down.John 18: 28Then the Jews led Jesus from Caiaphas to the palace of the Roman governor. By now it was early morning, and to avoid ceremonial uncleanness the Jews did not enter the palace; they wanted to be able to eat the Passover.Remember, evening starts a new day. So here we have morning, which means the day has already begun about 12 hours earlier. Notice what it states-they wanted to eat the Passover meal. Therefore, now is the Passover. Jesus has not been killed yet. His death occurs in the afternoon-which means its the Passover

quote:

---

In the synoptics, Jesus eats his last meal on Passover and is killed the next day.

---

You are correct on one thing...it does not make sense in John. But it clearly states its the Passover. You brought up another problem as to why the story seems implausible. But the fact remains, its the Passover. In John, yes his last meal is on the eve of Passover, but the death of Jesus is on the Passover. In the synoptics, its clearly stated it IS the Passover when Jesus has his last meal.

You just repeated what I said.... Which is still passover. Passover wouldn't end until that following sunset. You seem to be both saying exactly what I said, and contradicting me in the same post.This is how it is. Let pretend that today is passover eve. That means tha passover would start at sunset tonight, we would eat the passover meal, but the holiday would NOT STOP until sunset tomorrow. All the rules about what you can or cannot do on passover would apply the next morning all throughout the day.

---

If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be. --Thomas Jefferson

No. You are still not understanding.For me and you, the difference between today and tomorrow happens at 12:00am in the middle of the night. For Jews, it is at sunset.So you are correct to say that in John the congregation with the disciples (there was no last supper in John) happens in the evening at the start of passover eve.You are NOT correct to say according to John, that Jesus was crucified on the passover. You even post the scripture that talks about how they wanted to be done with the crucifying so that it wouldn't overlap with passover. According to John, Jesus was cruficied on passover EVE.According to the synoptics, Jesus was crucified ON PASSOVER.Which is rediculous of course.

---

If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be. --Thomas Jefferson

Hello again. If Jesus ate his last meal on Passover Eve, this means its the day BEFORE the Passover. Correct? If Jesus was killed AFTER the Eve, that would place it the next day. Correct?
Jesus was killed during the afternoon AFTER the last meal. If the last meal was in the evening on Passover Eve (as we both have stated), then the next day, noon, would be Passover.You need to reread the scripture I gave. It does not say they wanted Jesus off the cross bc it was before the Passover, it states it was before the Sabbath.Here is some scripture again.John 13: "What you are about to do, do quickly," Jesus told him, 28but no one at the meal understood why Jesus said this to him. 29Since Judas had charge of the money, some thought Jesus was telling him to buy what was needed for the Feast, or to give something to the poor. 30As soon as Judas had taken the bread, he went out. And it was night.This is the last meal of Jesus. His followers thought Judas was going to take the money and purchase that which was needed for the Passover meal. So again, Passover has not occured yet.Jesus is arrested after the his last meal (which occured in the evening, which we both stated was Passover Eve). He is brought before Annas.
John 18: 28Then the Jews led Jesus from Caiaphas to the palace of the Roman governor. By now it was early morning-Once the sun goes down, a new day begins. Evening, darkness, morning, evening again. This is a day. Jesus ate his meal in the evening...its is now morning. Which means its the next day.-and to avoid ceremonial uncleanness the Jews did not enter the palace; they wanted to be able to eat the Passover. 29So Pilate came out to them and asked, "What charges are you bringing against this man?"Notice how it states the Passover was not eaten yet. If the last meal of Jesus was on the Passover Eve, the very next evening meal would be the Passover feast.Remember, the lambs were slaughtered ON the Passover.Mark 14: 12On the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, when it was customary to sacrifice the Passover lamb, Jesus' disciples asked him, "Where do you want us to go and make preparations for you to eat the Passover?"We know its the Passover bc it states the lambs were killed on this day.13So he sent two of his disciples, telling them, "Go into the city, and a man carrying a jar of water will meet you. Follow him. 14Say to the owner of the house he enters, 'The Teacher asks: Where is my guest room, where I may eat the Passover with my disciples?' 15He will show you a large upper room, furnished and ready. Make preparations for us there."Jesus sends his disciples to prepare the Passover meal.16The disciples left, went into the city and found things just as Jesus had told them. So they prepared the Passover.They prepared the Passover.17When evening came, Jesus arrived with the Twelve. 18While they were reclining at the table eating, he said, "I tell you the truth, one of you will betray meone who is eating with me."This is the last meal of Jesus, on the Passover. Its evening, so in a few hours, it will be a new day. The trial and the death of Jesus occur after the following morning...so its the day AFTER the Passover.The reason Jesus is called the lamb of god in John, is bc the author was comparing Jesus to the sacrificial lamb. Both were killed around noon. That in itself is a dead giveaway that it is the Passover in John.

No. I don't know how to make it more clear. The way Jews count their days, the next morning was STILL passover EVE. It says it is the "special" Sabbath or "high" Sabbath. This is equivalent to a religious holiday NOT the normal weekly Sabbath. In particular, this holiday is referring to Passover. No. it very plainly is NOT. In Jewish reckoning, morning is the same day as the previous evening. You simply are not understanding this. Yes! it would be THAT night. The start of Passover. Wrong. The lambs were slaughtered on Passover eve, in the afternoon just before Passover day began (after sunset). It was a SIN to kill an animal on Passover. Which MUST happen on Passover EVE because it is not permitted to work on the Passover. Except the next day is still Passover as I have already said. Yes he is compared to the sacrificial lamb (unique to John), both killed on Passover EVE!Don't believe me? Look it up!Passover sacrifice - Wikipedia Edited by Jazzns, : No reason given.

---

If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be. --Thomas Jefferson

Good, then we both agree. good, I think...John says "before passover"synoptics says "during passover"they disagree, yes?