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Author Topic:   Ignore Feature
Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 1 of 19 (528238)
10-05-2009 10:39 AM


Hi all!
I'm seriously considering implementing an ignore feature next. I've never used an ignore feature before, so I'm looking for suggestions from people who have used it at other boards to describe how it works and tell me what features they'd like to see.
I have a few specific questions:
  1. When you ignore someone, you can't see their posts, but can they see yours?
  2. If they can see your posts, can they reply to them, it's just that you can't see them.
  3. How public is ignore information. Can other people see who you're ignoring?
I'll post more questions as I think of them.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

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Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3912 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 2 of 19 (528243)
10-05-2009 10:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Admin
10-05-2009 10:39 AM


Not as useful for a moderated board
I think this feature is generally useful if a board is not moderated. It is a good thing to have for people to turn off the voices of potential abusers.
EvC is pretty fairly moderated and even though some people might feel "abused" it really only invites sensitive participants the ability to hide from criticism.
On the other hand, it may make people choose their words more carefully. =)

If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be. --Thomas Jefferson

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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2296 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 3 of 19 (528244)
10-05-2009 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Admin
10-05-2009 10:39 AM


My experiences are as follows.
When you ignore someone, you can't see their posts, but can they see yours?
Yes.
If they can see your posts, can they reply to them, it's just that you can't see them.
Yes.
How public is ignore information. Can other people see who you're ignoring?
Sometimes it's private, sometimes it's not. I would suggest public. Makes it more transparent, so people can see why the posts aren't responded to, and that it's because of ignoring rather then not having a response.
That being said, I much prefer not to have an ignore function. I hate it, quite frankly. Good moderation also should make ignoring stupid or trollish posters redundant, as they will be dealt with by the moderation staff.

I hunt for the truth
I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand
My image is of agony, my servants rape the land
Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain
Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name
Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law
My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore.
-Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead

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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 4 of 19 (528245)
10-05-2009 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Huntard
10-05-2009 10:57 AM


That being said, I much prefer not to have an ignore function. I hate it, quite frankly. Good moderation also should make ignoring stupid or trollish posters redundant, as they will be dealt with by the moderation staff.
I agree. Ignore functions do not serve to improve the quality of debate instead they simply fragment the debate that does occur. They may be worthwhile on larger sites, but EvC is relatively small.
I've never seen a public ignore feature.

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Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 5 of 19 (528248)
10-05-2009 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Admin
10-05-2009 10:39 AM


Ignore Fate
I don't have other-board experience, but I do have my own opinion. And a soapbox! Whoo!!
I see an "ignore" feature as a "preserve personal stress levels" feature. That is, it's only purpose is to help lessen visible stress to a user who wants to be restricted from such things. It should not be able to influence other user's access to publically posted information. Nor should it have any influence on anyone elses use of the board.
That is, if I ignore Larni because I think Bobba Fett is overrated (), it doesn't affect Onifre in any way.
Given that, here's my answers (notice how I take an extra step up my soapbox):
1. When you ignore someone, you can't see their posts, but can they see yours?
-Yes.
2. If they can see your posts, can they reply to them, it's just that you can't see them.
-Yes, they can reply to your posts, but you will not see the reply. Not sure if email notification should also be blocked? Probably... Maybe... I don't know, I don't tend to use ignore features anyway
3. How public is ignore information. Can other people see who you're ignoring?
-Ignored information is still public and therefore still visible to anyone who is not-ignoring that person. So, yes, other people can see who you're ignoring.
-You may be thinking of a "blocking feature" here. Which may be something that could be implemented and controlled by thread-starters? Certainly a separate feature, though. Ignore features don't include alterations to other people's board experiences.
(ABE - Whoops, I didn't understand your question here... )
Additional thoughts:
--You shouldn't be able to ignore any and all users (I'm thinking about admins here).
--It may be interesting to have a publically viewable list of all people anyone is ignoring or is ignored by. Like maybe on each user's profile?
Oh, and I won't be getting off my soapbox for a while. The air's just a bit nicer up here. Regular people probably can't tell a difference, but I can notice it. Besides, everything's just so... mundane down there in non-soapbox land.
Edited by Stile, : My mom says I'm imaginative with a spoonful of stupid.

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Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 6 of 19 (528268)
10-05-2009 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Admin
10-05-2009 10:39 AM


I don't think an ignore function would useful, here.
People being arses is normally dealt at moderation level.
I don't see the advantage in being able to ignore people on this site.
Just an opinion, feel free to ignore

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Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 7 of 19 (528270)
10-05-2009 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Admin
10-05-2009 10:39 AM


"La, la, la, I'm Not Listening"
Hi Percy,
Whilst I can see that this is another excellent thing to have as part of your board software package, I do see one problem. Creationists already have an unfortunate habit of sticking their fingers in their ears and singing "la, la, I'm not listening" when confronted with anything they don't want to hear. A technological fix that allows them to do this more effectively isn't going to help them understand anything any better.
I seem to be pouring cold water on your latest adjustments. In fact, I just want to say that most of what you've done is great. The thread and message numbering is superb. I wish more boards had such useful software as EvC. Indeed I'm sure that features like ignore and member rating will be very desirable elsewhere. I don't mind playing guinea pig for any new modifications, I just don't think that all of them are necessarily going to improve debate here in the long term.
Mutate and Survive

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Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 8 of 19 (528278)
10-05-2009 1:48 PM


For those who expressed skepticism that an ignore feature would be appropriate for EvC, while I would definitely test it here, I would also listen to the membership regarding its becoming permanently enabled.
The feedback about it possibly causing fragmentation of discussions is a concern I share.
What do people think of a blocking feature - people you block couldn't reply to your messages.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 9 of 19 (528287)
10-05-2009 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Admin
10-05-2009 1:48 PM


What do people think of a blocking feature - people you block couldn't reply to your messages.
I hate the idea.
The people that are most likely to block people from responding are the ones that do not want to have a true debate. I know the proselytizers and the preachers will block me every time. By allowing blocking, you will just allow people to spout whatever drivel they want and limit the people that will truly call them on it.
Edited by Theodoric, : spelling

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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2296 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 10 of 19 (528290)
10-05-2009 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Admin
10-05-2009 1:48 PM


Agree with Theo. It will basically allow creationists and others to dominate entire threads, by blocking everyone that doesn't agree with them, and then pretending nobody can answer their "valid criticisms".

I hunt for the truth
I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand
My image is of agony, my servants rape the land
Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain
Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name
Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law
My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore.
-Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead

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 Message 8 by Admin, posted 10-05-2009 1:48 PM Admin has seen this message but not replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 11 of 19 (528297)
10-05-2009 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Admin
10-05-2009 1:48 PM


Can't see that one flying.
While it may be good for thwarting people who intrude on a thread with random bollocks we only see that on rare occasions, but as has been pointed out up thread by Granny this could give people a validated 'lalalalalala' button to dodge questions.

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Perdition
Member (Idle past 3238 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 12 of 19 (528308)
10-05-2009 5:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Admin
10-05-2009 10:39 AM


I'm disinclined to like an "ignore feature" for a couple of reasons. As stated above, it lets users stop listening to anyone they disagree with, thereby stopping debate cold, and as this site is all about debate, it seems counterintuitive.
On the otherside, if someone registers and starts prosyletizing, I may be very inclined to ignore them, but if they're truly able to understand their mistake and begin evolving into a better debater, I've cut myself off from their better arguments. Based on what others are saying, I may be able to realize they've gotten better and "unignore" them, but for an ignore feature to really work, I would think it would also ignore responses to someone you've ignored...or am I wrong there?
Basically, how would I know if someone's gotten better and deserves to be listened to if I can't see what they're doing? There are a few posters here, I won't name names without a bribe, that I just skip over. I read the responses to them, however, and if I see a promising line of discussion, I'll go back and read the original post. This could be difficult to do, ignoring and unignoring the same person over and over.
Anyway, just my 2 cents.

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Perdition
Member (Idle past 3238 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 13 of 19 (528309)
10-05-2009 5:56 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Admin
10-05-2009 1:48 PM


For those who expressed skepticism that an ignore feature would be appropriate for EvC, while I would definitely test it here, I would also listen to the membership regarding its becoming permanently enabled.
Can you enable it only for certain fora? For instance, you could enable it in the coffeehouse, book nook, and free-for-all fora that are great and fun, but aren't exactly the most heavily moderated, making it an ideal test-bed for the feature without bringing damnation to the actual debate threads.

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 14 of 19 (528332)
10-05-2009 8:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Admin
10-05-2009 10:39 AM


Limited Ignore?
Hi Percy,
Where I've seen this used before is in unmoderated boards, and they were commonly attacked by spammers and trolls. You could sign in and find there were several hundred posts on a thread since the last time, most of them junk, insults, bad language, etc.
One such was John Jager, aka Mirabile_Auditu, who made a brief appearance here before being shut down by admins.
Where it might be useful is if it were limited to single threads or single posts.
Single posts would mean that instead of
X has take note of this post
you would show
X has ignored this post
The benefit to the person ignored is that they can try to reformulate the post or their argument. Of course you could also modify the "noted button" to be a set of choices:
X agrees with this post
X has noted this post
X has ignored this post
X thinks this post is off-topic
Any one of these would turn off the "has not responded" note on the post, and they also provide feedback to the poster. The link on the thread topic list would just show yes or no to whether a post was responded to (the buttons count as a response).
Another way to implement it in a limited manner would be to have the poster ignored on a thread by thread basis rather than across the board.
As to the comment about it being a way to avoid certain debate points, I don't see this is valid: it can already be done. The benefit would come if the person knows when they are being ignored, as in when you reply to Y you get a message that "Y is ignoring your posts" and this may change the way you write the post, if you still want to.
My experience on those other boards is:
  1. When you ignore someone, you can't see their posts, but can they see yours?
    Yes.
  2. If they can see your posts, can they reply to them, it's just that you can't see them.
    Yes.
  3. How public is ignore information. Can other people see who you're ignoring?
    No. However, I think this information is useful and pertinent.
The benefit is when you are participating in a thread and you have someone with a pet peeve that keeps posting to you regardless of topic or whether or not you want to discuss a point with them, and keeps badgering you to respond to their post/s -- if they make 20 posts to your one, then it can add up to a lot of wasted bandwidth to sort through, ie - troll behavior.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 15 of 19 (529013)
10-07-2009 8:41 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Admin
10-05-2009 1:48 PM


how about an "Ignore Smilies" option?
Just a thought, Percy.
But an "ignore smilies" option might be beneficial. I know one site where (CTD and others) would "debate" by posting a bunch of moving and dancing smilies and no content at all.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
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